Welcome to the After Hours Podcast Hosted by Harry Hoss and James Freedlender Presented by My Investing Club
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James 0:12
What’s going on guys, we’re back with another episode of the after hours Podcast. Today we have a little bit different of a setup, we got to have the young guns kind of in the MIC. There’s like a whole group of them that next gen traders and they have kind of taken it all by storm. Everybody’s really impressed with how much work they’re putting in the progress we’re seeing. I mean, they have been here now for at least a year each write maybe even a little bit more some or something. And then like eight months, yeah. Good. So it’s cool to see the progression from you guys. You know, you had different trading styles and like come on, you guys are all seem to be finding your niche now really, really making the next step. So I commend you guys. And like I said, I know everybody’s really proud of you. So thank you for coming back on and we’ll kind of get into it. So last week was the last week of January or something like that we had an MIC meetup in California. And all of them went it was really cool they got it they rented an Airbnb had like a fun time. And I’ll let them tell you about that. But you know, Zander if you want to start off kind of give us some stuff that you learned at the meetup or even talking about it in general talking about meeting up with your tabs and everything in real life and kind of give us a little little bit of lowdown.
Zander 1:23
Yeah, so first thing I want to say is, like with anything in life, you you know, anything that is secluded from like actual interaction with people, it’s, it’s very real experience once you actually get to, like meet people in that community. So anything where you get to go actually meet them, you just have a whole out a whole different outlook on things. So after going to the meetup that actually meeting other traders, I realize it just like makes the entire thing real, because we’re so stuck to the computers. So it doesn’t feel real until you really meet everyone. And just talking to everyone that I’ve already talked to, like on Slack and stuff is has, it’s been really insane. Actually getting to learn from them, like learning all the different styles, especially because everyone trades a different way. And that’s, that’s the really cool thing about it.
Harry 2:20
Yeah, I feel like that’s cool when you when you meet people who kind of like do similar trading styles to like your niche as well. Because and it’s just like anything, right? Like, I mean, if you work for a company, or you work for whatever, like, you know, when you’re going into the office every day, like you You also have that kind of like camaraderie and support from like your co workers as well. And like, that’s why like people without tabs like you don’t realize how much you need, like a buddy to number one, keep you accountable. But also number two, keep you like, sane as you’re going along this journey. Because like, it’s not the easiest thing in the world, let me tell you that. So it’s good to have like a group of guys with the same kind of goals and vision that can kind of keep you motivated. And like, you know, they can they can help you out.
Meeting People in Person
James 3:09
That’s kind of why I don’t like love this, like work from home like COVID idea, because I feel like you need to have like a tab group and especially meeting them in person is like really cool, because it gives you it’s also like a healthy competition. Like you have people pushing you to go forward, like farther, like one thing around here. So I live in Boston, and Anh he lives a town over from me. And he’s another moderator in the MIC chat. And he’s just awesome. And I met him in person. And he helped push me to like, kind of like advance more and like give me like, I don’t know, it’s just it’s weird. Sometimes hearing it online is great. But like seeing these people in person to help kind of reiterate that in your mind is, is pretty cool. So I think it’s awesome. And you guys, you guys rented an Airbnb, right, like stayed together.
Zander 3:52
Yeah. And that’s another thing. Meeting all my close friends that I’ve known for, like over a year now was really cool, because it kind of showed me what is going to happen in the future more often. Like traveling, traveling and meeting all of them in a new location. Like I haven’t really been in the Heart of LA very much. And like being there with my friends was really cool. It’s like a new experience. And it’s really motivating and inspiring, because I want to be able to do that very, like a lot more frequently in the future.
James 4:22
You guys are young, so it’s like you guys kind of haven’t really gotten to experience like that much travel on your own. I’m guessing because I mean, before COVID That I was traveling all the time like I went to Europe for like two weeks and it’s like now it’s like I want to go do that so I can go see Tom see bear and I’m gonna canvass the area. It’s like now I can fucking really do that. So yeah, like that’s cool.
Samuel 4:43
I actually enjoy Oh, keep going Sam now just consider the end of the summer Zander and I will be headed out of country for like the first time to Amsterdam. Even for an MIC meetup out and it’s all starting this year.
James 4:58
You guys you guys should not go to Amsterdam.
Harry 5:02
What are you guys thinking? I’m doing?
Samuel 5:05
I don’t think he’s given official month he just said the end of this summer, he’s gonna set it up.
Harry 5:11
Because me and my girlfriend like we’re like, seriously looking about, like, getting out of Canada and just like traveling for the summer because like, I mean, I’ve been stuck, man, I have been stung. Like you guys know about any of this shit that’s been going on. Like I’ve just been stuck. So super excited to kind of leave and I think we want to go to Europe, like into like France and like just travel around. So I don’t really want to have like a plan set. I just want to travel around. And James and me actually don’t live that far.
How Far Is It From Boston to New York?
James 5:43
No, like Canada. Canada is like even new I know I’m in Boston but Canada to New York. It’s like what like a couple like an hour, two hour flights area.
Harry 5:52
Even drive bro, like even drove down. It’s only a two hour drive.
James 5:57
It’s not that far. I know. So I’m I’m excited for this year. I’m glad we got started up like this and hopefully have more meetups like we I mean, the New York meetup like two years ago for COVID was amazing. Like we’ve had some fun ones. So I’m glad you guys had a lot of fun and got to actually interact with each other and you know what, what kind of things did you pull from it? So like, because obviously being around people who make I mean Alex Bao like those guys are obviously seven, eight figure traders. And what what did being around them? Like? What did you pull from it? Did you guys learn anything that took you took immediately into your own trading, or anything like that?
The Simplicity of Trading in Real Life
Samuel 6:31
I think for me, it was the simplicity of it. Were like, obviously, you know, like Sanjay was saying you meet you see everybody online. And it’s hard to see it as like real life. You know, everybody’s on a screen even trading, you’re pushing buttons, you’re, you know, it almost seems like a video game sometimes. And so meeting everybody in real life that made it real, it was like, oh, shoot, like, this is a real thing. This is a real job. This is a real career. And the thing that I just was just amazing is you’re sitting there with talking with Alex talk with Bao, even the other traders, Stephen. And it’s just like, it’s so simple. Like when there’s no secret sauce, a concrete Panda, you know, it’s like this. The secret is that there is no secret, right? Yeah. Like when meeting everybody and talking. It’s like, they’re saying the same things that they have always said and the webinars on the videos and chat. Like there is no secret sauce that you learn when you’re with them. It’s so simple. It’s exactly what they’ve been teaching. But it’s like when you’re meeting them in person. It kind of takes the overthinking out of it. You’re just no face to face conversation. You’re talking stocks, and it’s just like, oh, that really is it? Like that’s the how to do it.
James 7:46
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We always look at these people like, especially when you’re like new into it, you look at people who have made it as like, wizards. You’re like, These people aren’t even real like, because honestly, we are in a industry have kind of like frauds and like gurus and like people who just like, they say, oh, trading is easy. And it’s like you see it and it’s like, hard to even believe it yourself. And once you kind of meet these people in real life, and like hear it like I remember the first time I like met up with Alex and I was like, Oh, it’s just like a normal fucking dude. No, he’s not like, he’s not Jeff Bezos No, not like Warren Buffett. He’s just as normal as dude. He’s just like, trading like normal. And it’s like, I feel like you guys have kind of progressed into that stage now where like, you realize there is no, there’s no like magic eight ball that’s telling anyone that when to go short when to cover and all that shit. It really is. It’s just processed, driven. And it’s like a simplistic process. And Zander I know you’ve really progressed that way. Because I can see it in your charts. Like I know, before, you were much more like sporadic and now you kind of have a set process in a set style of trading that you were just sticking to. And it works well for you.
Zander 8:51
Yeah, yeah. And talking to Tyler at the event was especially good, because yeah, forever. For everyone who doesn’t know I trade all the faders now. And there’s not that many, like good all the faders out there because it’s a hard, hard strategy to do because you have to be willing with drawdown, you have to be disciplined to stick to a system. And so talking to Tyler there and making a good connection with him was really awesome. Because there’s not many faders out there. So and he was there. And it was yeah, that was a great connection to make. So it’s all about networking, and make connections like I know Sam talked a lot to Steven and that’s a future connection that’s going to pay off in the long run to.
Harry 9:34
Yeah Sam you doing the faders are like what have you What have you been kind of working on? Oh, no.
Samuel 9:44
No, so I’m actually kind of like transitioning a little bit after some conversations with Steven and you know Nelly, two way trader. I’ve been hitting outer lines, just like the outer lines of a move and what has not been much in January, nothing’s getting back there. And if it does, it squeezes, and then covering it, like, I don’t fade it, but I do wait for strong support. So like low a day, or really, really key pre market. But you know, the thing that I realized was, you know, you’re just spending so much of your time just sitting in waiting, which is good. When, when you’re when your system isn’t there, wait for your edge. But watching like, you know, Steven, and to weigh and obviously James, you bow everybody, instead of being, it’s funny, there can be almost a thing of being to discipline, where you’re not taking trades, you know, and that’s almost an excuse that I’ve used for fear of taking losses, it’s like, No, I won’t take any trade, I won’t take any trade except for right here, because I’m afraid of anything else, I’m going to take a loss for it. But that probably means I’m sighs too strong, or my stop is too tight, you know. And so I’m actually allowing myself over the next couple months, creating a little bit more flexibility. So instead of just hitting a really strict outer line, I’m hitting like, the outer area. So Steven talked about it, there are entry zones, and there’s covered zones, right? And, and I’m really focusing on hitting the just entry zones, I’m going back into the 10%, size, you know, scaling, 30% size and adding to my winners, which is very, very hard for a newer trader, or even, you know, an amateur trader or intermediate, because that is all about experience. You know, that’s the discretionary side of trading, you’ve got to have insane discipline, you can’t let your emotions get the best of you. Because you have to stay above all, above all of that to be able to play the chart, you know, but yeah, hitting it is areas.
Advice on Adding on Confirmation
James 11:45
That’s, it’s tough, because, because when you’re when you’re trying to like add on confirmation and stuff, like like, I have a good friend who’s learning the trade as well. And he’s, he kind of fell into this trap of like, having some bad days, because he kept trying to add on confirmation. But like, realistically, when you’re new, sometimes it’s too hard to like, you don’t have the screen time or like you don’t know the nuances yet. Like like now it’s like after years of doing this, like I remember when I was kind of where you were and thinking like, I don’t know what the fuck conformation is, I don’t know when to add and all that shit like, and now like honest to God, like what I always recommend people is like, you’re always better off like adding later than sooner, and like just moving your wrist down, which helps a ton. Like, everyone always just freaks out because they add on confirmation. And then it’s almost like a mental thing. It’s like the second you add, you don’t want to stop though, because now you’re like, Fuck, I finally just added like, now I don’t want to stop out. And it’s like, I think something that’s really helped my trading and like something maybe would help you. I don’t know, it’s just, again, I like adding a little later than too soon. Like, I’m fine, like living with a starter and then adding and moving my wrist down. Rather than being like, Fuck I need to get all in right now. And like, like, have my risk because like, sometimes it’s it’s hard to identify a risk off a line. In the moment sometimes, you know, like when things are like popping and all that stuff and and what you said about like zone two, huge thing I’ve used as the volume profile. Like it’s not for everybody. It’s kind of like no use it as well, I think but you know, it gives you an idea of where to get in and get out because you’re like, oh says it all the time. It’s not a science, like there’s there is no exact formula to getting in and getting out or like where to stop out and all that realistically. And you can really tell a lot by just volume and kind of like on the chart. So but it’s cool that you’re you guys have I like that you guys are tabs and you both have your own style. So how do you guys work together with that? Like how do you help each other? Because like all day faders versus like what Sam’s doing, and then versus what the screen is? I’m sure we’re doing like, all very different, right? So like, how do you guys work together? And like, what do you do?
Zander 13:44
So first? Yeah, so the main thing isn’t so much in the strategy, but instead like keeping me with it. Because as you guys know, I switch like systems, I switch strategies like every week. And I’m one of those people. And so I do have the discipline to last a couple of weeks. But already, I’ve been like, Oh, should I should I be discretionary trading, because I feel like it’d be better performing in this market. But Sam keeps me on all the faders he keeps me like, I know that I know what I need to be doing. But I have the desire to be profitable now and not taking the long term success route, which I know all that fit as well, because it’s a system and it just fits my personality. And Sam just reminds me of that every day. And so that’s that’s really the main thing that’s going on right now.
Samuel 14:39
But yeah. I want to piggyback on that, because to me, like tabs and tabs groups, like sure it’s great to share your charts. And it’s great to have people to go over technical analysis with analysis with or to watch videos with or to get advice from but like, you have mentors for that, right. You’ve got moderators and really experienced traders who can act really analyze your charts give you really, really good advice. But to me having a tab and a tab group, it’s about more of the psychology of trading, like Zander said, keeping each other accountable, keeping each other focused on what you know, we’re supposed to be not deviating from our process or from you know, the way we’re supposed to trade. And the biggest thing for me with you know, Zander, and my tag group is like, after a day, if I take a loss or something, a little I was a couple days ago, I texted dinner, I’m like, bro, I’m gonna need that tab call tonight, like, like, I just didn’t have a call tonight. And what is get on town call, we’ll talk about the day we’ll share our charts, and will just sit and just kind of blow steam, you know, and whatever it is, that usually ends in like this amazing ramp that leads to this breakthrough, you know, but it’s like, having a tab is about having somebody there to bounce things off of your emotions, and, you know, your day, not as much like, here’s my chart, analyze it for me and give me advice. You know, you got to have that.
Strategies on the Outerlines
Harry 15:58
Yeah. And I think also, like, I just never got to really try min about like your strategy on the Outer lines? If I were you, I would probably like, I mean, I would try and play something kind of like similar to like, the way Zander kind of does it where like Zander like, like, he has like his image Mitchell entries that we kind of add to his wiener. If you I’m gonna say probably like nine out of 10 stocks by the time they get to the top of that range in this market and the current conditions we’re in right now. Like almost always, like clear out and then go lower, right? Almost always 100 Fucking percent. I’m literally along trader Austin and I have been dealing with this. I don’t know why. And so if you kind of just slowly kind of scale and or with not that much size, just so you can be comfortable enough to so you’re watching the ticker and enough size that you’re in, but enough size that you’re sweating. But then once we stuff or we get that kind of like get the clear out that Yeah, yeah, then you can just start, you can really hammer size on those pops, and then kind of wait for it to get to the bottom. And once I have kind of that mid to like bottom of the range like that kind of like I guess like lower third of the range, that’s when you can kind of look at covering and kind of when it gets like under VWAP, and we get lower to that bottom support. That’s when you can kind of look at covering. I think the key really is when stuff like that, is that you have to say like, am I anticipating, right? So like, what what part of this trade is my anticipation and what part of this trade is my confirmation? And you can feel it when you’re right. When you’re like, damn, I nailed that, like that sick. And then you look at your size, you’re like fuck, but I didn’t get enough size. Well, now that you’re saying, I nailed that you can add anywhere on the chart, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a fucking pop, you can just slam the bed here, right? You know, you are right, you have a set risk. Average doesn’t matter now, right? You know, so when once you get that confirmation, just take like maybe like after full size just added and you’re like, alright, confirmed, I’ll wait for a pop. But like, what, it doesn’t matter, right? Because you are confirmed your thesis is right, the market has shown you that you’re right. So therefore just click the button, slam the fucking bid and maybe add some more into a pop and then you know, you have a decent average, that is what I would be doing. Because if you look at my Longs, like, for me, I’ve been doing like a lot of like multi day setups. And these things in the morning are dead, right? They are that. So if I’m looking at a stock, what for me would be the confirmation for me to want to start getting in and then what would be the confirmation for me to kind of start adding size. And for me the number one confirmation is number one, I’m looking at the lines and looking at the resistance and support. So but it’s a little bit it’s got to be a bit more than the resistance and support because if you’re just saying oh, it bounced off this line and there’s no volume, well, you’re going to be shut out of Laughlin that ship tax you know, 30 cents lower right. But for me, it’s been the volume coming in to the stock that has been my initial kind of entry signal and then when the stock starts ripping, I’m adding and then I’m selling a bit higher and I know unconfirmed and I know right so you can really do the opposite of that shorting where as you’re saying to yourself, Okay, we’re getting the volume you can do the exact opposite and saying we’re getting the volume into this move. So a few confirmation signals would be the volume starting to die out once we’ve kind of cleared over that high and that class that you know we wrote over Friday stuff and it doesn’t necessarily have to be two or three cents over it you can give it 10 You know 15 cents add up into those kind of zones. You’re confirmed. I mean, if I were you I just slamming the fucking bed Don’t wait for a fucking pop. Get half that size. Here bro and And, you know, stick to that when you’re right. I think that that’s a big thing like, like a lot of traders, they get full size and then they’re like, like they’re still guessing right? You shouldn’t need to guess You shouldn’t be like, I’m right. I know I’m right. Boom full size. I’m fucking right Harry.
January Was a Hard Month
Samuel 20:17
that is 100% might struggle and January because like I said I was just hitting those outer lines that hit you know, pretty much full size because it was the outermost line. So what else is there scaling to and then I just got cleared out, cleared out cleared out cleared out, and it was so frustrating. So January was like a hard month and then that’s when you know, I’ve adjusted to be like, Okay, I need to smaller size hit the outer areas. Yeah. And then like you said, ad once it confirms and that usually means ad after the clear out, you know, it’s so true. And shout out to to a trader for some really amazing mentorship that he’s been giving to Zander and I realize awesome, it’d be really great. But like really, really good day was the perfect example of what you’re talking about Harry were like pre market it was I think like a 2.20 was the high market open that popped up to 2.15 went back down squeezed up to 2.30s cleared out the pre market high day cleared out the high today and then at 2.30 that had like seven red candles and just completely faded back down to like, I don’t know, like 210 or something and then I hit it on the bounce back up to 2.20 and you know, wrote it back down but to a nailed that with adding either clear out, you know.
Advice for Traders Right Now
James 21:27
He’s he’s a good trader man. He really is. And he’s progressed a lot too. And he’s actually been on the podcast too. So you guys can listen to that. But there’s some like a like a small piece of advice for right now for this is for everybody is just doing this market we’re in right now. And it’s February 4 2022 Going to the markets sucks right now. I honestly like I don’t think it’s favorable for shorts Long’s. I mean obviously not for Long’s at all. But I mean, even shorts, it’s just, we are not range bound. So like right now, if you’re trying to treat a system or a process or whatever, like, this is a terrible time. And it’s a shitty time to do it. Because unfortunately, like you’re we’re not getting enough sample sizes, and things to even test our strategies and like, like trade the way we should, like, there hasn’t really been opportunity. Like I feel like I’ve been like so bored for like two months. And so it’s important that you guys are like sticking with like, I just made a video last night but like just sticking with like your same process and like what you’re doing like I like that you guys are like, you figured out what you’re what you’re doing what you’re good at, in like, basically like through any market like because I honestly think if you can survive in this market without like bleeding your accounts to zero. I think that’s like a massive win, because this is fuckin shit. This is a shit market that it’s awful. And, and I think Zander I had a question for you is that I get DMS all the time people asking like how what what kind of trading style they should do? Like how do they know what their style is? So how did you come to find that like doing the all day faders for you was your trading style because it’s not an easy thing to figure out.
Zander 22:58
The main thing is the risk reward because with scalping, like, I’m a huge over thinker, and I always overthought the risk reward with scalping and not like not like the scalping, I think but like even just you know, shorting V whap, covering nailing bailing. That just didn’t, that didn’t resonate with me. And because of the risk reward I was getting about, like point five, reward toward risk. And my win rate was pretty like an I know, I wouldn’t be profitable with that style if I kept going at it, but it just didn’t fit my style. And I’ve also known I’m always like a numbers person. So I have, you know, I track stuff on Excel. And I just liked the idea of having a black and white system to follow. So I don’t have to do much thinking when it comes to market, most of the stuff comes pre market after hours, where I’m developing and refining my system. I mean, it I just felt it when I started so I tried it all. And then I just felt with the system. It worked best with me.
James 24:02
I like that, I think I think it’s it’s hard to figure out. So Sam, what do you say with you? How did you find your style? What makes you comfortable? And how did you know?
Samuel 24:10
Well, you know, it’s really funny Zander and I actually had this conversation like Three nights ago, as I was kind of talking about what I’m kind of switching up and everything and really quick something James is like when the market is hard. A lot of people are going to go and try every other style that they possibly can, you know, they’re going to try when it’s a bull market, and they’re gonna go short when it’s a bear. And the thing is like with me, I noticed that my strategy was having a hard time in this market. But I didn’t throw it all out the door and like restart and try chasing something different. I just made small adjustments to my trading like sizing smaller before like Harry said before they clear out you know, when the markets hard in your strategy is hard. Don’t throw it all away and go chasing something else. Just make adjustments and just tweak it. You know what I’m saying? But, um, for me, it’s really about your personality and So true, like the different there’s so many different strategies that you’ve got to find out what works for you. And I was just talking to Zander. And the thing is, with my personality, my hardest thing in trading has always been confidence. having confidence in my trading, I don’t know why it was just, it’s just whatever, you know. And so what I found is that when I was waiting for risk and reward setups, that was very difficult for me, because I was taking a loss after loss after loss, sure, the win would cover them. But it was just really hard for me mentally because I’m just taking losses. And I realized that with the Mi see process, and with you know, maybe hitting kind of taking wins and you know, locking in games and adding and whatnot, you’re getting these adrenaline jumps that are thrown at you, you know, these just like kind of dopamine rushes, as you’re locking in games and you’re taking wins and every day, you know, you’re you’re taking these small wins that add up. And so I just realized that for me, obviously still hitting the outlines areas but switching back to the win rate, and, and locking in the gains every single day was just way I mean healthier for me mentally. Yeah, no, I enjoyed trade. I enjoy trading more that way. I’m in the matrix that way, I have to go to the gym afterwards, because I’m so like, hype. And so it’s just knowing your weaknesses and knowing your strengths. And I’m very very disciplined. So discretionarily discretionary trading I can do because I don’t get wrapped up in the emotions of the trade. I enjoy it and I love it. But I don’t get wrapped up in the motion. So I’m not you know, adding loads and slamming sighs like I’m very disciplined. So I can that’s my strength with discretionary. But then knowing my weakness and knowing that I need that win rate to kind of keep me going every single day.
Driving Liquidity and Short Sellers
Harry 26:43
I think if you look at the kind of market as a whole, I know I mentioned this on the podcast a lot. It’s really about just like driving liquidity, right? Like, for example, like where, you know where where are Long’s looking to chase right? Well, high a day is a good spot for Long’s to chase because they’re thinking we’re gonna get that rain to break out all shorts or stuff, right? They you know, they press the buy button. And most people in the market are law I’d say maybe like 20 Well, not necessarily now in small caps, because we do have a lot of people shorting but when you like in on Twitter and stuff like that, you see a lot of people shorting but I’d say the majority of like, dumb people dumb money coming into the market is longing. So you know, where are they looking to buy? Right top of the range? Usually they missed the move, they wish they bought the dip, that’s where they’re buying, because they’re thinking on shorts, or stock or whatever they think I don’t even know. And, you know, they end up getting stuffed on and they’re like, Well, what did I do wrong? Right? It’s the same thing with the V whap, replan setup, like, how many times do we have to get overview up and come back down and get overview up and come back down to get overview up before finally we get that move? Right. And it’s all just driving liquidity? The first three times we go over V whap. It’s all those long chasers, right. So if like, I’m a bigger player, I’m going to be like, oh, I’ll just put the stock overview up a little bit, I’ll sell to these fuckers and then I’ll rip it back down. And then you know, it’s the same process over and over again. And same thing with the lows when you’re long trader, right? Like, you know, if I was a, you know, manipulator or big player, well, I make sure to stop them all out before I can run it again. Because, you know, it’s hard to run a stock when you have a bunch of bag holders, right. So it’s all liquidity driven game. And I think if you can use that to your advantage and say to yourself, like, okay, like, I’m using the outer lines, because I’m relying on this kind of nine times out of 10 liquidity driven game. And I’m gonna say to myself, Well, I’m just going to add in smaller over that high day and then really add into that confirmation. And then that’s where you I think we’ll find really a lot of success. And I think as far as the adding to a confirmation, like, don’t make it difficult on yourself, and don’t make it hard on yourself. You like when you’re sitting there and you’re you’re watching the tape and you’re you know, you’re you whatever the fuck Sam does his eyes are on the screen and look at the fuckin you know, you see that stuff moving? You’re like shit, man, that’s crazy. Just start fucking slamming, you know,
Harry 29:25
Just slamming your fucking right. You know, you have added into the confirmation, you bet patience. It’s showing you what it wants to do. How many times do you see the stock go over high a day? Absolutely. Big slam candle and the ship comes back almost never because you’ve seen the agenda now. But the reason why no one adds is because they’re like, Oh, well, I missed it. Right? I missed out. And that’s the problem. So don’t get to everyone’s like short, short, Depop shorts, which I do understand I completely get that for someone who’s just shorting airlines, the best ones. And I got this from I mean a lot, you know, he was like the best Staters really don’t talk, you know, they just keep fucking going and saying what’s the best lungs are not going to give you a good entry to get in, right? They’re going to keep going and going going, because it’s relying on those chasers to really drive the move higher, right? And so yeah, like the best, the best shorts are not going to have a big, big, big pop, right? Everyone, everyone who’s trapped on the long side is just selling, they don’t even care if they get it. They’re just fucking selling, selling, selling. And that really drives it lower. So I think like, if I was you, like, I just be like, okay, you know, smaller size, smaller size, smaller size, smaller size should add and then just let it ride for a little bit. Wait for your kind of covers zones? And then that’s it.
Samuel 30:55
Yeah, it’s so true. And what what you said was like trading the liquidity like, to me, obviously, the liquidity, volume, and liquidity and volume equals to meet a motion. Yep. Right. Like that is the emotion of the traders who are on the stock with you. And so that’s why like, as a short seller, I want to trade where the highest emotion is, I want to trade where the Long’s are greedy, and the shorts are pissing their pants, you know. And so it’s like, you’ve got to be above all of those things in order to take advantage of us, like with the high day clear out your average short sale, especially after 2020 and 2021. There’s so many noobs who are in the market and trading now that there’s so much emotion, there’s so much new emotion. And so it’s like what the high day clear out, that’s where short sellers are going like, Oh, crap, I need to get out. And that’s where the the experience short seller, the person who’s above those emotions, they should be going this is perfect. This is exactly what I want to see. You know,
Harry 31:53
yeah, yeah, yeah. 100% I think that that, yeah, that’s definitely true. You know, I’m just really, I think that is probably the most important part. It’s just like, adding when you know, you’re right. And, I mean, that’s really great. Trading is really just knowing just like having an idea. And like, this can come in with the system too, because if you look at everyone, everyone has their own process, which is really just technically boils down to a system, I mean, whatever you want to call it, a process system, you know, whatever. But I think that, you know, a lot of it is just saying, like, Okay, this is my thesis on the on the day, this is what I think is going to happen. And then I’m going to add small sides into the idea, and then I’m really going to hammer out when it’s confirmed. And if you can do that, that’s how you get full size on, that’s how you have the confidence to keep going forward. That’s how you really, really, really can take these little cuts, but it’s not costing you money, because it’s small enough size that you can take it over and over and over again. And when you are right, you have big enough size to cover the paper cuts and you know, buy yourself a nice dinner later on in the day. Right. So that is that’s really the the key to this, I think, you know.
The Hard Job of Trading Stocks
James 33:14
I mean, like trading is easy. I mean, as you guys know, it’s like I like interviewing you guys too because it’s like we had both on previously and and I think it’s like you guys are now like in this long enough to understand like trading stocks like it is a hard job like there’s a lot to it and like so I’m really I really am happy that you guys at least have each other to like bounce off of and like grow with because if you’re in this for the long haul like you’ll drive yourself nuts like again you once you think you’ve figured it all out, then something will slap you in the face just to remind you like you’re not perfect, we’re all not perfect. And just like I said, man, just keep surviving this market get through this. I get on trader calls with members all the time. They’re just struggling and it’s like it’s like guys like right now it’s like this is like a hands off market like it’s like if a trade doesn’t present itself we’re just not trading we’re just chilling and just just kind of relaxing. And I think you guys are doing a great job and Zander I really do commend you for at least sticking to it because it’s like I said during right now all the faders fucking suck and they just really stop right you’re just not getting that that follow through that you’re looking for so it mentally mentally it’s impressive that you can stick to it. So I am really happy for you.
Advice for New Members
Samuel 34:20
Made it to Zander for that because that that’s his biggest weakness is changing cycles and processes. And so the fact that he’s like found his trading strategy and he’s been sticking with that and I’ll keep making he’s really sticks with that but obviously that’s that’s a big that’s a big thing for him. So it’s really really good. And I’m glad.
Zander 34:43
I’m glad people are like starting to make memes about me being an.
Harry 34:52
Because you know if you switch that you’re still
Zander 34:58
It kind of makes me identify With that I’m in the oven all day fit or like now I can’t I can’t change.
James 35:06
You guys are psychopaths. I think it’s a psychopathic strategy. But I think it’s it’s funny, but we are coming up. We’re at like 30 40 minutes. But I guess before we go, both you guys got any last minute advice for new members or people potentially joining?
Zander 35:23
I would say be patient because ever since I started, I’ve been like, trying to rush to find the thing that’s going to be the most profitable the quickest. Oh my God.
Samuel 35:35
For the listeners, somebody posted a meme and main shout, James. And it’s really hard not to smile. Oh, my gosh.
Samuel 35:45
Yeah. So I mean, the main thing is just to be patient, give it time to find your style, because I’m always in a rush to find what’s going to be most profitable. But if I really slowed down and stuck to one thing, I would have been profitable a lot long, a lot longer ago, like I would have been profitable in 2021. So just be patient. And if you feel you have, if you feel you have a style, stick with it, like set a three month four month rule where you stick with it, you grind every day to refine that. And I think you’ll be profitable with that. As long as you stick with it.
Samuel 36:18
Yeah, yeah. And I want to tie it back in, you know, with the meet up and everything. 2021 was the hardest year of my life. Learning how to trade and figuring this out. The mental battles that you go through and the discipline that it requires and the blood, sweat and tears, I mean days where you’re just in your room crying where you want to punch a wall, we’re just not working. Obviously, I have, you know, personal things that went on this year that were extremely difficult. And it’s just it can’t be matched and it can’t be underrated how important it is to have a freaking community around you. Like having your tab group. And you know, Zander if it wasn’t for Zander, and my tab group, I would not still be trading. I don’t need to have any self, you know, pride about it. Like I would not still be here, you know, but it’s like, the community of MIC is is so valuable, especially for people who are more emotional like me, you have to have people around you. And when I was at the meetup it was just like, these are real people. I mean, we’re talking about football or swiping so much on Tinder and I don’t even know I’m gonna go out on dates.
James 37:38
It’s like a fidget spinner. And he just like spend it.
Samuel 37:44
But it’s just like, it’s real people, you know, and after the meetup having conversations with Steven it just it made me feel a part of a community made me feel not crazy, you know, and after such a crazy year, that that’s so valuable. So find your community and for me, I think for almost anybody, it’s going to be MIC but it’s like find your community and that will keep you going on the on the really, really hard days.
James 38:11
Well, that’s good. I feel like we should just kind of right there.