Welcome to the After Hours Podcast Hosted by Harry Hoss and James Freedlender Presented by My Investing Club
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James 0:12
What’s going on guys, we are back with another episode of the after hours Podcast. Today we have a very special guests are Arnoby, who is a member in MIC. So what’s up, dude? Thank you for coming on.
Arnoby 0:23
What’s up, guys glad to be here guys.
James 0:26
Of course of course we love getting to meet all the new members and it’s kind of cool. We’re getting a lot episodes in now. So it’s like really getting to see a tonne of our members and just eventually we’re gonna have to go back around and reintroduce so anyways, but so what’s going on man I wanted to talk how did you find trading? And then how did you eventually kind of get into MIC kind of run us through your career so far?
Arnoby 0:47
Yeah, yeah, sure. So So like you said, my name is Arnoby. I’ve been with you guys now for a year, maybe a year and a half. Pretty quiet, you know, trying to learn and not really posting too much because I feel like I really don’t have anything genuine to add right now. So I’m gonna be quiet and it’s sidelines but I got into trading. Man, I wanted to get into it when I was in college and I really thought about it for a long time and but I have that typical kind of immigrant family story. You know, we came out poor, worked really hard, but didn’t have a lot of money to do anything with. So what I wanted to do out of college was real estate, and, and trading some type of way I knew I wanted to do it, but I didn’t know how and I didn’t have the money. So fast forward a little bit. I bought a couple of houses, I got my real estate licence, I made a little bit of money selling and flipping my first house and and with that money, then I started dabbling a little more into trading. I opened up a $5,000 account first with I think it was Interactive Brokers. And yeah, after that, I just kind of got another account and other $5,000 account you got, you know, everything that I did was basically what what you guys kept advising or mentioning like, hey, two accounts, so you could do more trading. Were shorting and that’s primarily what I what I do shorting and so yeah, so recently, I moved up to my full account.
Harry 2:16
With Cobra. Oh, awesome.
Arnoby 2:19
Yeah, that’s kind of well, I didn’t I didn’t trade my way they I don’t want to say that I gotta run from five to 30 or anything like that.
How He Got Into Trading Stocks
James 2:25
But most people don’t run last week. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Arnoby 2:29
So I mean, you know, I I invested a little bit you can say, like in 2017 a little Bitcoin. And that actually went really well for me when I you know, I didn’t catch the top or anything, it was falling and I saw it go to 20. And when it came back down to the eights and seven, I started buying a little bit buy in a little bit, and when it took off, that gave me more money to pull out and then start my big account and really commit a little more to trading. That’s pretty cool.
James 2:59
I feel like I mean, I don’t want to like go off on the PDT rant, but like, I feel like people are always like embarrassed and like Oh, I like I funded it I didn’t trade to it. It’s like yeah, to actually trade your account over PDT is like really fucking hard. It’s not impossible. You know, I think certain market sentiments are like better for that and you can do it but like the reality is like the three day trading is fucking hard. So it’s like you know I always tell people like you know, and this is not financial advice whatsoever. But I’m like, you know, it’s just if you from the beginning can fund your account to like 30 Which sounds like a lot some people but a lot of people have that it’s like you fund your account and you set max losses like you’re probably going to lose less money long term than like when you’re under PDT because I remember being under PDT I was so stressed I would take bad trades because like I just needed to trade I wouldn’t cut myself off because I knew I couldn’t trade for like a week and like that whole five day rolling period the amount of times I got like margin cut like my broker was like you have to find money I’m like fuck at the closest one now and go open somewhere else because I did four trades in a week because I was like I didn’t fucking get it it was yeah I got lucky as I was growing during like a really easy time like I swear like the market back then was was so different like hair you remember like seven stocks you wake up and stocks would literally just fail that Yeah. Like literally!
Harry 4:26
Literally in that time period like if you went through the filings and found that a stock had like a big ATM or something like that. There was like so little volume that you’d be like alright confirmed all day fader boys.
James 4:39
Yeah, like 5 million if a stock traded 10 million shares in the day. It was like this thing’s a fucking runner. Now stocks trading 10 million shares before the open you’re like, right it’s changed so much But see, that’s how you can get off on a tangent on PDT ship but anyways, so So where are you in your trading now? So I kind of Are you? Are you doing well? Or what’s what’s working? Well for you? Were you struggling kind of run through that?
Arnoby 5:05
Yeah, that’s, that’s a great question for me right now. Because so So going back to how I, how I transitioned, I started doing well, with my two $5,000 accounts, actually, my risk management was was going well, I was just shorting small caps. And I started dabbling with large caps. I’ve always I was always interested in large caps, right. That was the first thing I started investing in, in Robin Hood, when you know, when Robin Hood came out, I opened up an account because I didn’t have a lot of money. So I opened up with I think, 1000 or $2,000. And I put it into a couple of large cap stocks. So cool. So I, I started dabbling with with those large caps again, and I found some success. And I was even gonna, like write a post and after hours, like I was, I was telling all my tabs like, oh, we just wait and see. I was I was, I think I made like, which for me? 10,000 in a month? Yes. That’s great. Yeah.
James 6:05
99% of traders.
Arnoby 6:07
More money than, you know, more money than any other little thing has given me, right. So I was like, wow, I’m really, I’m really onto something. And then I made the switch from the from the Interactive Brokers, the small accounts, to the big account. And I also set a max broker loss at $500. And I thought, Okay, this is the beginning of my real career. And, and then I started hitting that max loss, like a champ, like hitting for two weeks straight, just back to back. And so it really threw me off, I gave back a lot of those gains, you know, those 10,000 that I had made the previous month, I think this was like November, December. And so going into this year, and I, I’ve been up and down, and that’s kind of that’s kind of where I’m at right now. I’ve been talking to a lot of traders, I’ve been talking to some of the mods, you know, my tabs are talking to two way about it. And yeah, I’ve just been working on sizing down and trying to trying to take it a little bit slower. I think I got ahead of myself, I got really hyped up with that big money that I saw. And I thought, Man, I’m gonna I’m gonna do holidays all the way now. smack me pretty hard in the face. Yeah.
The Struggle of Being a Trader vs. A Trader
Harry 7:30
Yeah, I think I think that that is a big struggle that we talked to a lot of people though, because like James and I have really, like, I mean, the past like six months, done a tonne of interviews and talk to a lot of people. And that’s a big struggle was like, you get you you progress, like a little bit. And then all of a sudden, you’re like, Oh, I’m I’m a trader, now I’m a this or that. Yeah, and you get overeager and you size too much. And you really start to deviate away from the process. Like, if you look at how you got there, nine times out of 10 That was like, you know, trades where the top was set or trades, like where you kind of knew, like kind of like you almost like have a good thesis behind it. You know, like you can say the top was set. I know a tonne of people who were alone were trapped. Maybe it was like under View app or at least kind of close to it. Like you have like a lot of like pieces to kind of paint whereas like once you kind of you know get a little like you should I say like loose or copy on the rules. You know, you’re like, Oh, like this happens to a lot of people where they’re like oh, well it’s a shift small cap so I can go short here or Oh, shit so I can keep adding adding adding adding adding and you kind of get too eager and you size a bit too much and that’s where you kind of get into drop trouble you know?
The Second You Feel Confident in Trading
James 8:52
Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know much I don’t pretend to know everything. But one of the biggest things I know is like the second you feel confident and cocky in trading you generally are about to get like fucked like it’s like it’s not when you’re like trading well like you’re trading well and you’re confident in your trading is different. But once you feel like you have figured out you’re like this is the start because I’ve been there this is the beginning of my like my like Jesse Livermore career that’s usually about the time we’re about to take like max loss after max loss and that’s it dude. And it’s tough because I mean, you know, especially I think a lot of people and I have this theory that every when you start out in the beginning it’s easier to make money because you will have so much less understanding of like how far the money can go in trading to because like, when I was new I like I was using sighs and I like didn’t even understand like, I would just pick Oh, like what is like 5000 shares on like a $3,000 account on like, what’s the worst it’s gonna happen? But like now that you know that you’re like, then that’s when I wouldn’t want you to fear but like the reality sets in like, this is serious. You could lose a lot of money you could fuck yourself over. But like when you’re new, it’s like I hear stories all the time people like, oh yeah, my first six months I made like 100 grand, and then now I’m down to 100 grand. So it’s like, it’s not easy, you know. And it’s, it’s just funny like that’s it’s the markets way and you’re not alone, dude, most people go down this path, they have that, that those moments of clarity that like this is it this is it. And then like now it’s just finding footing and like, again, sometimes going from being under PDT to over PDT is like a little bit of a mental jump, because it’s like, you’re used to trading under a certain way. And you kind of do have to change and you change, because now you’re like, oh, that can change a billion times my first day over PDK like, I placed like, over 200 trades, because I was just like, I was like, I was like a machine gun bras, I probably ended the day read, I didn’t fucking remember you. But,
Arnoby 10:50
But it’s another thing that I’m frustrated with now is sort of along those lines, like, I kind of lost sense of like, what $100 is, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve, in the past, I don’t know, two months or something, just looked at five or $800. And, and I wanted more in the market really to be doing that really. And, and, and I I’ve given it all back, I’ve given it back, and then some. And that’s the most frustrating thing to me. So I think I’m struggling more with like, the mental side of it that, that I I’m frustrated with myself, because I’m like, Dude, you know, you never looked at 200 or $300. Like with, you know, like, Oh, more like, Yeah, appreciate that a little bit. Like you got that in 10 minutes, Dude get out of. And, you know, so I’m struggling with that.
How to Use Market Sentiment to Your Advantage
Harry 11:39
Yeah, I think also, as far as like, market sentiment goes is like, if you’re like a, let’s say, let’s say like, just to keep things easy, let’s say you’re like an all day theatre guy, you know, that’s your main strategy. And see a lot of people when they’re first kind of starting, they, they, I think like the trap that a lot of people fall into, like not necessarily you but like you, you kind of start building a strategy around the current market sentiment, you know, so as, let’s say, it’s, let’s say all day, faders are hot, right? You know, there was a time even, like, in the last, like, I’d say three months where you could just go short at the open and you were going like, and like the stocks were like, not really strong and they were weak. But once the market cycle kind of turns a little bit, a lot of people kind of fail to adapt. And that’s why I think so many new people make a lot of money because I feel like, like brand new people come into the market. And they’re like, oh, man, like, look at that breakout, like how were you not making money off that six months ago? And they’re like, Oh, what an idiot, this guy? Oh, man, I’m long in the breakout. And they do that for like, two, three weeks. And then all of a sudden breakouts stopped working for like, an entire year. People are like, what’s the same thing with all the faders were there? It’s like, yeah, all day faders it’s like people like, see a bunch of all day faders they adjust, adjust, adjust, they’re like, I’m ready for the faders bro, I’m ready for the faders and now there’s no fucking faders and all that work they had just done was based on a prior market sentiment, right? And then they start
Arnoby 13:18
Forcing or this looks like a they start taking it on the chin. No.
Harry 13:24
They either start forcing or so you really need. There’s two things that you can do with that, like number one is like there’s the key MICU strategies that work every single day. But also like if your mindset is like, I’m not gonna do that and I see process and I’m gonna like venture somewhere else, then, you know, you can get in some trouble where you either have to just not trade every day and be okay with not trading every day. Or you know, maybe getting wrapped following that whatever system it is you have every day.
James 13:56
Here you posted a picture about this, like recently, it was kind of saying like, your strategy was like your strategy in the middle. And then it was like, times where it’s hot and it’s great. And it was like times where it’s like time to work and then time for your like, it’s not working at all. And like that just unfortunately is strategy like not even moc strategy is very simplistic. And it works I in my opinion, it works in every market cycle. But there are Mark market cycles where it is way harder like I know I can always tell when changes because it’s usually when Alex will take like a loss once like that crazy like big runner start coming in like that initial transition for like scalping line The line it gets fucking tough. So it’s like every strategy is going to have it’s like, somewhere that like holes are poked in it, but it’s just all that matters, right? It’s like risk management, all that stuff. So it’s like, it is tough. It’s fucking tough and as far as like the mental thing that you were kind of saying like, the money things funny like in I wanted to bring this up because like lately my girlfriend and I will get these dumb fights about this where like, like, for example, like I lost like 10 bucks on the trip. She’s like, we just lost him bucks. I don’t fucking cares. $10 like, I don’t care. And you’re just and she’s like what is wrong with Even I’m like, I don’t like you just you do you lose mentally like the value of like money, especially nowadays with locates as a short seller like I’m starting off my days like down 500 bucks. Like that is like that’s psychotic shit like it’s it’s crazy to view it is
Harry 15:16
Fucked specimen It is fun.
James 15:19
Like bear and I are like up where we’re red five 5 600 bucks he’s reading them figuring out like how do we do this and why. But in the problem is if we do you We’ve just lost that that mindset of like how far money can go and like I know like Ty who’s or Tay. How long does it take? Mama say mama grandma, but she Mahajan. MICU is an amazing woman, but she’s always shitting on me, because I go out a lot. And it’s kind of like, I go out to get steaks and stuff. Because like, that does really remind me of how much like money can go how far it can go, like items and shit, whatever. But like, when it comes to like, trading, like if I’m if I make like $1,000 in a day, and it’s like, I have that itch to be like, Wow, dude, you should be up to $1,000 or bigger, bigger, right? It’s kind of like, well, that $1,000 is like, for steak, six steak dinners. Like it’s like, really, really good night out like, oh, yeah, it’s crazy.
Harry 16:14
I got I got oh, sorry, I don’t mean to tell you. I got in a similar situation where I had made like, around two grand, it was like around two grand. But like, I had like, kind of planned to sell like, a lot higher. But like, for example, I bought like four bots sold at like 454 60 area, I didn’t really have that much size on made a grand. And you know, but my plan was like to sell like, definitely a lot higher. And like you couldn’t really size into this one. So I was like, I’ll just take like, couple 1000 chairs and like, that’s fine. And so I ended up selling for 50 That’s great stock ends up going to like 650 On this day. And I was so pissed for the whole day. And my girlfriend was like, Yeah, but you still need a grant. Like, who cares? And I was like, right? That’s That’s fucking bullshit. I was like, Nah.
James 17:06
You don’t get it?
Strategies and What He’s Struggling With
Arnoby 17:10
$1,000 what is that?
Harry 17:12
Yeah, but I mean, maybe kind of going back. Maybe you could kind of talk about like your strategies and kind of like what you’re struggling with. Because James and I, when we talked about doing these podcasts with like, people who are like, struggling or like on the cusp of like, kind of like just kind of getting there. If you could kind of talk about like strategies. And James, I could like, give you some advice on how to get better.
Arnoby 17:34
Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, I mainly do like low hanging fruit for small caps, I stick with low hanging fruit or first resistance to taking them at V whap. That’s mainly what I focus on when I’m when I’m on board, you know, hitting outer lines during that high a day, and giving it a little bit of room above that. So but what I think I’m struggling with most is discipline, honestly, it’s it’s knowing like what you guys were saying about market sentiment and knowing that if things are slow, I don’t have to trade. Honestly, I don’t think I’ve not traded a day, even when I know that I shouldn’t trade, I still feel like I’m there. Um, you know, I see maybe someone in the chat taking some trades, and I’m like, Okay, I missed those. Let me look for some and that’s where I think I’m getting in trouble just just kind of not having the discipline and the patience to, to really wait for the outermost line, maybe I’m impatient, and I take a, you know, an inner line. And then I get squeezed. And instead of being disciplined, and maybe stopping where I said I would stop, I’ll give it a little more room, or I’ll add at the outer line now. And now if it squeezes past the outer line, I’m in big trouble. And I hit my max loss.
James 18:55
Yeah, yeah.
Harry 18:57
Advice on that? Sure. Yeah. Yes. So I think as far as let’s say, let’s say there’s like, so as far as kind of first resistance goes, I think, for me, like we review a lot of charts and weekend mentoring. And like, a lot of people with the whole first resistance thing is like, they don’t really take into account where the stock was opening up. And like, I’m not saying that this is you, but like, this is like a big problem I’ve been seeing. Because like, when you deal with like the weekend mentoring for like, almost two years now. Like, you kind of see the same shit over and over and over again, right. So as far as first resistance goes, if it’s a really, really broken stock, and like we’re opening up under VWAP, the first place I would want to get your would be the first line that’s like WAP. And the reason is, is because like recently, I’ve just been seeing that, that little bit overview up and that little line over VWAP has been the time where you’ll get a lot of like kind of excess supply, right? It’s a really good area to trap along who are buying that VWAP reclaim, it’s a really good area to have a lot of people who are short underneath V Whap kind of stopped out in that area. That’s one area that I’ve seen that’s worked really, really, really well. Now, if the stock is opening up at VWAP, or around VWAP you gotta wait for the most outer line, right, you gotta wait for the most outer line. That’s what I’ve been seeing 100% all the time, if we’re opening up kind of near VWAP, around VWAP. You know, you got to always wait for that kind of everyone. So take into account every day, like how far away is the stock review app, right? Same thing on low hanging fruit, like it’s low hanging fruit is super, super below View app, you want to get short, a little bit above V whap. To just test the waters, that’s where I would want to get short. My first bullets, right saying to myself, I think dumb lungs are going to chase here shorts are going to be stopping out using the you app as rest, that would be a good liquidity area for me to want to get into a position short, right. And that’s kind of been what what I’ve been seeing in that kind of situation, where a lot of people will short the broken stock and get short too early. And then by the time it blows them out, the real move happens or like fuck, what did I do, but it’s really
Arnoby 21:20
Beyond Yeah, the timing aspect. And I feel like that’s tied to the discipline aspect. Like, yeah, not having the patience or the discipline to wait for that line. Yeah. Yeah.
Harry 21:30
Like, like, for me to want to get short, like, what’s the edge that I have? You know, like, for me, doing shorter line is like a reason to go short for sure. But if you can, like pair that line with like, what I just said where like, I think Long’s are chasing into this, like, quote unquote, little breakout level, I think that a lot of shorts are going to be stopping out over VWAP. You know, you’re pairing up multiple ideas now, with that one area, rather just than just saying, like, maybe it’s a whole or half dollar number up there as well, right. Now, you have so much more to paint that picture. Whereas if you’re just like, Oh, I’m going short on the line, because it’s allied, like, that’s a lot less than having this bigger picture idea, right?
Arnoby 22:13
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Discipline to Trade
James 22:15
My, my big thing was discipline. So I’ve two things. So one, I’ve kind of grown into this like trader lately, I’ve been talking a lot with like, make even better about this and stuff. And just the thing is now like, I almost don’t want to trade every day. That’s kind of how my personality has shifted, like, and that’s how I keep myself discipline to trade, kind of like how I’m trading right now. I basically approach every day, like, I don’t want to risk my money, like I know how much capital I have, like, like, I’m not here to gamble. I’m not here to just trade to trade, because like, if you’re coming to the market, just to trade anything, that’s when you go on to like the gambling like, little like me, and it’s like, you’re starting to go towards being a gambler, because that’s the point, you’re supposed to only trade when you have an ad. So on the days now where like, I find myself like really, like there’s just no setups, which is happening a lot like it does happen. And that’s okay, because the day that there are setups, you’re making that much more, etc, whatever. But I just haven’t started like kind of doing this thing where like, I’ll actually start looking at large caps not to trade but to invest like to buy something like I have a lot of long term investments that like I I really like and pay attention, I’m trying to get better understanding like macro ideas. So like, those are the days where like, I pretty much shut down small caps. And I just like I always will scoop up something in large caps like that doesn’t really go there’s not really many days I go by that I don’t have some involvement with the market. But I just try to get that ah, oh, and another educated disciplined way. And once I started adapting that idea, it made not trading easy. It almost made like I said it made it like you don’t want to trade unless there’s an opportunity like Harry for a long time. Like, I feel like Harry wasn’t trading that much during the dead market. Because why would he risk his money, like it just wasn’t that much sick until the opportunity comes that’s worth losing, whatever you’re worth, whatever you’re okay, losing on a setup, and you’re not going to touch anything. And then as far as like, actually on the chart, the it’s funny, like everyone wants to like no one wants to do this stuff because it is hard. But a way to fix it really is the shorting is fancy orders at your best line. Like once you like start looking at charts and I all I used to do was I would print out Alex’s charts, Bao’s, charts, etc. And just recognise where the stock turned on a bigger scale, like on a five minute or whatever, like just as long as it correlated with a line on the chart that made sense. I started paying attention to that and I just started setting fancy orders for that level. And you’d be shocked how many times nowadays too, because a lot of how I trade now I do use fantasy orders more. A lot of times I just set an order and I’m like that’s never gonna fill like but it’s the perfect area for me to get in. And it’s insane how many times it actually He does get to your line, like these lines are magnets just like bow says, like the stocks tend to go to them. So it really comes to just setting fantasy orders and like setting hard stops, because once you set a hard stop, I like my thing now is like once I get in a position, if I’m in, I actually get up and like walk away for a minute, because I’m like, I mean, I have an automatic hard stuff that’s placed on it like Phil kind of thing. And what am I going to do, you know, like, I don’t want to be the guy that’s just adding, adding, adding, adding, because that’s not a real edge that’s like, that’s very hard for people to do bow can get away with it, bow can do that, because bow is so disciplined that scaling in and scaling out. But a lot of people can’t do that. It’s very hard, very hard for like the average guy to like, size accordingly and not fuck himself over being too early kind of thing. So So you kind of have to determine like, do I want to be that guy that’s just adding, adding, adding in hoping the stock turns? Or are you making an educated guess on the chart where the stock realistically should top out with a risk that you can take if it doesn’t, if it continues to go. So that was kind of like those things have changed my trading a lot, especially this year. And I know I think those are very helpful.
Harry 26:11
Also think that there’s something to be said for saying to yourself, like, Okay, I’m just going to wait till the stop kind of gets over extended. And I know that the top is set for sure. Like, I feel like every single person knows when the top is set. Like you shouldn’t, you shouldn’t be arguing with the guy next to you on whether the top is set or not. Right? Both of you should be at a mutual consensus. Like, all three of us can look at a chart and you know, if if if anyone is saying anything like I don’t know, or oh, maybe not. Top is not set, right? Everyone here would come to the same consensus of going all that thoughts. Like we wouldn’t be watching it ticker, all three of us right now. thing goes para, and then all of a sudden we get that candle and James and I would just look at each other, you know, you two and we’d be like, Oh, that’s that’s that’s fun. Like that, right? And so there’s something to be said for waiting for those moments and just attacking that. Right. That’s another thing too. And there’s really this kind of battle, I think between like anticipation and confirmation, right? Because like, anticipating is more of the prediction side, right? And a lot of people kind of do it, where they’re like, Okay, I think this is what like fantasy orders would be anticipation, right? I think this is where the stock was going to top out. This is giving me the best lines, you know, this is what I’m going to take, you know, as far as the whole confirmation side goes, it would be just waiting for things to be done and waiting for the top of set, you know, so I think you really need to kind of differentiate between, do I want to be more of an anticipation trader with a lot tighter risks?
How to Define Your Trading Personality
Harry 27:52
Or do I want to be a conformation trader with like, maybe a little bit less size, a little bit more type of risk, and you really need to define that for yourself. Because when you find out your personality, because a lot of people need that confirmation on the top of set, and that’s why fancy orders don’t work for them is because they need that confirmation. And if you just say, you know, I need this confirmation in my trading, that that’s the type of, you know, situation that I need, you know, a lot of those people kind of find peace, you know, and they just wait till the top is set short, and then that’s what they kind of do. So I think for a lot of people, you need to kind of define yourself as okay, what type of trader am I? And now how am I going to attack based on my personality, and a lot of people they get, they get, they turn into a confirmation, but then they’re like, well, but I’m a gambler, and they start, right? That happens to a lot of people. You know, you gotta say like, what’s my personality? And what has worked for me, like, I guarantee you could go back and look at that, you know, stretch when you made that 10 grand, and go through the trades and go through every trade and be like, Wow, that really worked for me. Now a part of that will be the market sentiment, right? A part of that will be the situation that we were in. But I think also another part of it will be you know, this is the way that my personality works in order for me to make money because me and you aren’t different. Me and James aren’t different. We’re all different here. We all trade different ways. But in order for me like for me myself, I’m I’m a bit more of an anticipation kind of guy, right? I like to have an idea I like to put the trade on and I like to let it work and set my risk accordingly. That’s what I like to do. But some people kind of need that stock to push up super high and they like to buy that kind of first bounce which is kind of a confirmation strategy in itself as well. Right? So you really need to kind of find the type of person you are to really manoeuvre you know, your own trading plan and your own kind of setups in the market. Right. I think
Arnoby 29:54
That’s great advice. Yeah, absolutely. Like the kind of stuff that I do need to figure out because You’re right. If I think back to those, those months where I had that really good stretch, I think I was setting fantasy orders. I’m pretty sure that that’s what I was doing. I was I was setting my order setting to stop. And and I was done. And I would walk away from the three tickers. And if two of them hit or one of them hit, that’s when I was, and I was hitting them with size because I knew my risk. And I think when I transitioned over, I started to go into like a more like, Well, I’m gonna handle this one trade at a time. Yeah, tick by tick. And I got away from just setting it and forgetting it. And now I’m just, you know, a guru Furu trying to try to hit it it and it just didn’t work. Yeah.
Harry 30:40
So you need to Yeah, and I think that’s what happens to a lot of people, right, you trade process. And your confidence is really driven by your way to trade process, right? Yep. Like, like,
Arnoby 30:52
Get the confidence.
Harry 30:53
And then the confidence metre fills up, and then your eyes filled with dollar signs. And then you’re fucking adding, adding, adding, adding, adding, and then you get fucked. And then you know, right, what happens. So that is what happens, right? There’s this kind of like pendulum, and everyone’s trading where they go from process to profits, right? And you really need to keep yourself in check. And always humble yourself. Like I say, every single day, like if I’m, if I’m going into a trade, that’s like, half debatable. I’m like, Okay, why? Why are you taking this fucking trade? Like, I’ll even say it myself. Like, what are you doing? Like, there’s no way that this is even suitable. And that’s a lot of these guys who start wronging broken stops fall into that trap as well, right? That is not a process fucking at all. But people want to make money, they don’t see a good long situation, they start forcing, it’s not really forcing, right? You go. Like, you could have had a day where like, three of your fantasy orders didn’t hit, right. Or maybe you went through one or two days where, you know, your fantasy owners didn’t hit and you’re like, huh, like, I gotta change something, or I gotta do something different, right? And then you get in that meddling situation where you go a little lower, and then you go a little lower, and then you’re like, oh, and then you. And that’s what really kind of screws you up, you know. So I go back to the kind of, you know, business plan, fantasy order. I’m an algo type of trading. You know, if you’re just saying to yourself, like, all I am is a risk manager, right? I have my fantasy orders here. This is what I’m going to do. This is my plan for the day, and just wait for those to hit and then kind of cover those support levels. That would be process trading, right? But the whole like, tick by tick, oh, man, I saw a seller I saw this, I saw that like that these guys don’t even know what the fuck they’re talking about. Now that I’m actually in a position to say this, like, half these guys don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. So in my opinion, I would just be the whole kind of process situation. process oriented trader and you will see the p&l correlate with that process, right?
Arnoby 33:07
Yeah, yeah.
The Key to Trading With No Ego
James 33:08
Oh, of course. Of course. Man. I think again, it comes down to a lot of it is like without even knowing a little bit of ego to like, you just always feel like you’re gonna beat the stock. You always feel like you’re gonna be the guy has a perfect chart this that the other thing. And it like I said, like, once you get in that meddling stage, like you’re already fucked, once you start, like trying to change your process, like once you’re like, oh, like, oh, well, I’m gonna, I’m gonna sure here a little bit, you’re already done. Because you’re already kind of deviated from what you do. Like, like, I had a really good conversation with a gentleman that works at a prop firm in New York. And we were talking about how, you know, he trades like big size and but his secret is like, he doesn’t short green candles, like ever. Like he like hit for him. He, if he’s top ticking, he broke process he needs to the top to be set like kind of what we were saying earlier. Like he needs to basically have a signal on his entry that is not guessing the top. And it’s like, having that mentality and like just kind of pushing away your ego can help push away that meddling idea of like, oh, like I’m just gonna I’m gonna start shorting this tick because like the Harry said that I saw a seller because V Whap should reject or because this idea of thing and it’s hard it is hard to like not want to like quote unquote, like impose your will on like the stock like, every time you’re shorting when you want to be like killing it like kicking in the reality is like, nobody cares, like the stock doesn’t care like you shouldn’t care. All you share your 500 shares like you’re not gonna do get to this stock, but you know what? Well, it’s like when you get a good entry and a good exit. You’re the one making money, like the market is a fun, funky way I used to trade with Joe Kelly on the phone, who’s the head Mottet NYC and we used to talk all the time and just like the market is a funny way of like punishing people. It’s like the longer you do this, the more you realise like the guys who short early are the guys that Harry’s selling into when they’re covering the fucking covering the damn top of the moon and Aries selling Oh Are the buyers that are buying the top or the ones that Alex is filling up fucking? Yeah. Like, it’s just that’s how you have to look at this. It’s always the guys that are too early that are getting fucked. So if you ever feel like you’re too early, you probably are like, that’s it. It’s hard to it’s hard to do. It’s hard to take that kind of like, opposite stance, but, but that’s really the key to trading is like, don’t trade with everyone else, like until the tides have completely shifted, like, and it’s like an obvious long and obvious short and like, it’s just, you know, you’re on the right side. You can’t trade with the maths and you can’t do what everyone else is doing or how it’s like you’re probably wrong. It’s not easy. It’s not but but it’s possible. You know, it is and it’s possible, just again, fantasy stuff that bow is preach for you. If people always ask me like, like that, the friend of mine that joined them ICS Academy charts will think that I’m like, dude, bow is like, God loved them in. He’s not fucking Albert Einstein. He’s not like, he’s not a trading Messiah. He’s just disciplined to his process. And like, that’s why his charts have looked the same since like, 2003 probably put arrows on shards because he’s just disciplined to the process that makes him money, you know, and he knows like, he does get in early. So he sizes to that. And that’s just again, take that kind of mindset and take that like contrarian idea of like being against the masses. And I think you’ll find a lot of help in your own trading.
Arnoby 36:31
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Harry 36:33
I think that I think that’s probably great now attended and yeah, that’s good. That’s awesome. So thanks for coming on, bro. Yeah,
Arnoby 36:43
Appreciate it, man. Thank you guys. Thank you for everything you guys do. I mean, I really do appreciate it MIC, this was my first community that I joined. And you know, from the beginning, I just knew that like, this is where I wanted to be. This is the kind of community that I wanted to learn from so so yeah, learning.
James 37:03
Yeah, be active man. Don’t don’t ever hesitate to post like ask questions and stuff because honestly, best advice is like, I swear, if closed mouths don’t get fed people who don’t ask people who don’t like kind of step up and like, take advantage of like what we all have to offer the other guys that will will make it anywhere so if you ever feel lost anything don’t don’t hesitate to reach out to either of us.
Arnoby 37:23
Yeah, cool, man. I will
