Welcome to the After Hours Podcast Hosted by Harry Hoss and James Freedlender Presented by My Investing Club
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James 0:12
What’s going on guys, we’re back with another episode of the after hours Podcast. Today we’re going to kind of do something similar to what we did last week more of like, a free talk. No real set topics, just kind of gonna see how it flows. So we’ll go from there. So here, what are you doing this weekend?
Harry 0:29
Well I was gonna go out tonight because I never really got to celebrate my girlfriends. Or not my girlfriend’s I’d never got to celebrate my birthday. So I was gonna go up tonight, you know, and get a nice steak, but she’s sick. Maybe with like, COVID or something like that, like round do I don’t really know. So, probably just gonna chill.
James 0:52
Everyone I know has gotten COVID Now like two or three times. It’s insane. Like, it’s so stupid. I just feel like at this point, it’s like, again, it’s like most people are some people don’t even have symptoms. Like they’re just kind of like, you know, just stuffy nose and cool, but some people get knocked on their ass. My my parents got pretty sick. You know, they were they were down and out for a bit. I don’t know what’s going on in Canada. But so if you guys have also just had it so much.
How He Got Started in Bitcoin
Harry 1:20
I got it. Like, I thought I had it a couple of times, but I didn’t. And then I got it. And then I kind of got it again. Like so I’ve had it like almost two times because a guy who lived with my girlfriend’s family, he got it and gave it to us. But my girlfriend’s family didn’t get it. My girlfriend’s family got it from someone else. And then we got that again. So kind of like pretty close to like two times, but I mean, it is what it is and just fucking rolling.
James 1:54
It’s kind of funny. Like, I guess we can kind of like transition this into like the markets a little bit. But, you know, it’s kind of funny how, like, for the longest time, you know, like that was like the biggest like market mover and like, with the overall like spy and the indexes, everything. Now it’s kind of like COVID like the Forgotten stepchild like no one even talks about anymore on the news. Like, there’s so much other crazy shit going on? That’s like, I don’t know. But I don’t know, I know, we were talking a little bit the other day, like you kind of have started to feel like we found like a at least short term bottom. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, what makes you think that
Harry 2:28
I mean, for me, just like, I’ve been, like, I had a bunch of, I’ve been kind of like feeling it for a while, because like, we’ve gotten like massive, massive kind of panic, Bitcoin 20k couldn’t really break below that kind of 20k numbers. So I was like, all right. And then also, with the overall markets, I find like the markets are really kind of forward looking. And, you know, I just feel like everyone kind of knows what’s going on. Now everyone knows that the rates are gonna be like rising, everyone kind of understands what’s kind of going to happen, like, everyone in their mom is yelling recession. And I really think the only thing and outs tweeted this out the other day, and I was thinking, you know, I really think you know, the only thing not putting us in a recession is everyone thinking that we’re going into a recession?
James 3:15
You know it’s, it’s kind of like the self fulfilling, you don’t like the opposite of what think’s going to happen or whatever.
Harry 3:21
when the masses think one thing is gonna happen all at once. Usually, the opposite happens.
James 3:26
yeah, that’s funny. It’s funny, like, I was kind of for a long time, I think everybody was expecting that one, like capitulation day, or like some crazy sell off day, you know, like, a 10% day or something nuts. And that would probably, you know, maybe be the bottom, but I almost feel like kind of what you’re saying, like, everyone was so scared of a potential recession or of the market crashing, that all like the weaker participants, like kind of sold already. Yeah. And we just started to like, slowly bleed down. I mean, it doesn’t mean that we can’t go a hell of a lot lower. But like, at least in my long term stuff, like I’ve slowly started scaling in i least started to you know, yeah, at least get involved a little bit. Yeah, I mean, out of my like, 100% allocation for of cash that I want to use for this. I’ve only like gone in like 10% It’s just like small but and then I want to start seeing us actually get some strength and like holding. You know, I think I think the only thing that concerns me now, mostly is just like, honestly, like being a barber like and talk to people all the time. It’s very interesting to be depressing, because you hear all the panic and people but it’s interesting, but there’s a lot of concern. I mean, there’s a lot of people now that kind of feel like this just might be the life we’re in for a while. And I think that’s the case. I mean, gas isn’t going anywhere. The cost of oils not going down. The food thing good people and like I come from a pretty like nice area, you know, like it’s very affable and such it’s very, I enjoy it. But you know, a lot of people out here even complaining about the cost of food going out to dinner, the cost has doubled. Go to the grocery store, they call Whole Foods whole check. It’s like you just like your everything you buy is just as expensive. And those are the only things that worry me that does that. Now, obviously, the confusion that people have is the economy is not the stock market. So that doesn’t necessarily mean we’re heading a lot lower. You know, but I do think, like, kind of slowly, you’re gonna start seeing less money flow into, like more public names, like I think people are gonna slow down their spending, because they’re trying to save and when you see your 401 K, push put in half, you kind of start pulling back, maybe you don’t buy that boat, or maybe you don’t buy the nice clothes for a season or something like that. So I do think we’re gonna slowly see it.
Employment Insurance in Canada
Harry 5:46
Yeah. And well, it’s funny that you mentioned that because where I live in Canada, what you could do with that when you went to school, you could you could work and if you put so many hours in, you could basically get EI, which is like employment insurance in Canada. I don’t know what what you guys have there.
James 6:04
yeah we have unemployment.
Harry 6:07
So anyway, when you were a student, you could put in all this work. And, you know, they would pay you out your ei for like, 30 weeks or so when you’re going to school. So like my girlfriend got like, she was getting like, close to like, 20 grand, you know, wow, when she was going to school and like Ei, basically, you know, because like you pay into it when you’re when you’re working. And then they kind of like pay you out. But now what they’ve done is they’ve cancelled that for the students in Canada. Wow. So a lot of my girlfriend’s friends who just went out kind of Boston stuff are like super panic now, because they’re like shit, like, I mean, and they have a right to be panicked, right? I mean, yeah, we have to block like, everything’s doubled and expense. And basically, you know, where we live? Like, basically, you know, our leader came out and basically said, like, because we kind of have like, you guys have like governors in the states, like premiers Berlin, where we list Supreme Leader Trudeau. Yeah, just Yeah. Well, Supreme Leader Trudeau was the one that ended up cancelling it. Yeah, but but, you know, our, basically our premier came out and said, Well, we have a lot of great jobs here. So kind of get to work. And, you know, it’s interesting, you know, those kinds of comments from older people, you know, oh, we have a lot of great jobs here get to work. But when you’re a student, you know, I mean, what type of jobs? Are you really getting, you know, like, minimum wage, whatever type jobs, and that extra 20k? You know, helps a lot, especially Oh, yeah. I mean, where I’m living right now, like, the cost of an apartment is like, 2k. If you want something like half decent, if you want to live in a shack, sure. Yep, we’re 100 bucks. But I mean, no one, I wouldn’t even feel comfortable living in places, like so much like violence to check goes on. So like, yeah, that’s definitely definitely a problem.
James 8:01
Here, like, we don’t even get shit like that, like we get, like, there’s like, you can basically get like, you pay until like, what’s called, like, unemployment insurance. And like, you know, if you’re not working, like you can fund it. I know a lot of people who finagle that, and whatever to get some money, but it’s very small. And same thing here, first of all, most of money and is run out due to COVID. And I think that now, like, I’m noticing it with people, I know that I mean, it’s a slow kind of bleed into everyday life, you know, when when gas instead of being $50 a week is now $150 a week, or, you know, when you’re when your cost of living has gone up. So significantly, a lot of like, people I surround myself with, they’re getting anxious, and they’re not really they don’t want to go out. They don’t want to do anything. Because again, you know, when you’re, it’s not like the, it’s not like our salaries went up, right. It’s not like the people that have jobs, like, making 50 grand now make 65 grand to to make up for this. And the problem is, like, that’s not changing. You know, I think what I’ve learned over time is, you know, we’ve been talking about this for a while that during COVID There were so many jobs available, like no one wanted to work because everybody was living the life you know, enjoying the free money which is causing a lot of these issues, all the money printed and all that shit. And now larger companies like Tesla just did basically a 10% layoff. Amazon’s doing, you know, this company is doing this all over and now there’s jobs. There’s so many people that need jobs, because they’re realising that shit I can’t afford my own life. And like that, that to me, is the only the last domino that I worry about the stock market itself.
Harry 9:41
Yeah, no, I definitely agree. Yeah, I was just gonna cut in and say like, yeah, like, I feel like social media also has a part to play in this as well. Because like, you see everyone on social media, it’s like Gucci Louie, you know, I’m travelling this week. I’m not working Oops, are under this under that. And that’s why I like where I live like those lower paying jobs which we need, like, Burger King gas station, they need workers course no one wants to do these jobs because they’re like, Oh, I’m better than that. Influencer on social media, I can’t do that, or this or that. So that puts a strain on the lower paying jobs. And also people are saying, Oh, well, I can get money from the government or whatever, for a little bit going on unemployment, I don’t hear you know, but that’s the problem is like, the lower paying jobs aren’t getting filled. And the higher paying jobs are getting cut. So where does that leave people? You know, when you’re working at McDonald’s, you can’t like afford, you know, a mortgage and a car payment. And yeah, supermarket grocery bill like crazy, and all these things that pop up even healthcare in the States, right? Health insurance, you know, all that. It’s crazy.
James 11:03
Then you’re right. And honestly, like, I feel like if I did if I could, I would nuke all social media, I can’t stand it. I think it’s, it’s doing a lot of harm and like, damage to people’s, like, understanding of like, what life actually is, yes, you know, it’s exactly what you said, it’s like, you know, I, I have, like, friends that go on. And they like, we have people who went to high school, and again, they grew up with like, a lot of money they are, they’re successful themselves. And, you know, they travel and they have all this nice shared and the, like, you know, the people we follow, like, the traders do make a lot of money. I mean, you know, Alex, like one of our best friends, you know, the guy balls out, he lives a stick life. And it’s like, sometimes I think people see that, and they’re like, Well, I’m not gonna be able to do that work in that, you know, Duncan’s are working here. And now it’s like, they’re just like, okay, then I won’t work. But, you know, they’re just, they’ll do whatever they have to, to kind of get by. But that’s a very large trickle down effect for the next 30 years. Because if you’re not saving now, like if you’re in your 20s, or even early 30s, and, you know, you’re not putting money away, let alone investing that money. But if you’re not putting money away, that’s a, that’s a trouble, because we’re also running in the States, you know, we have what’s called we have Social Security, you know, so everyone, you know, social security, you’re putting all this money into, and you know, when you get to a certain age, you know, you kind of get paid out from that. And you get paid out from like your investments, your retirement and all that. But most of the people I know, they’re not able now, because of the cost, put money away, they can’t save. And then if you can’t save, you’re not putting money into the stock market to eventually work for you and grow. So I don’t know where we go from here. You know, I don’t even know how they fix that.
The Biggest Ponzi Scheme in History
Harry 12:40
Yeah, that is definitely a big, big problem. Yeah. And I also think, like, for me, my mindset has always been like, I do not like and I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I would never want to rely on the government at all.
Harry 12:54
No, like, Social Security. You know, any of those. Any of those programs, I would never want to rely on the government. Because what was that thing that we saw the other day, like Social Security, like could run out by 20? Yeah. When what?
James 13:15
I know, it’s bad. And that’s, that’s kind of what I what I worry about, kind of like transitioning to kind of like crypto and shit. That’s what I worry about with crypto. Like, I feel like a lot of people were using crypto as like their lifeline. Like their their retirement. I mean, I just I’ve talked to a lot of people that treat it that way that like, you know, I got I got 2 million in crypto, you know, and a lot of people probably figured out how to play taxes with it. And then and then look at it now, you know, I mean, I did I don’t know, I
Harry 13:46
don’t know if NFL players like I’ll pay them in crypto or whatever.
James 13:52
Yeah, like obj got paid out. Like a million, whatever. It was his bonus in crypto. And it’s like, what was that smart? Like? Who told him that? That was like a good idea, you know, and they’re still pumping it they’re like, you see Brady, like came out with an NFT yesterday and it’s like, I don’t know man, like i i know i We talked to like talk a lot about this, but I just have an understanding and I have the belief that like 99% of crypto goes to zero, or like practically nothing. I think so. You know, it won’t happen overnight. Bitcoin will happen overnight. But I think bitcoins the biggest Ponzi scheme in history, I really do I think it will eventually be shown it of course, it will take a long time but I don’t know man. It’s just like, I’ve never read a crypto like anything about crypto or any of that shit that really makes me think wow, this is going to change the world. Like when NF T’s were coming around and people are like, oh, you know, the technology that eventually they’ll be used as concert tickets. I’m like, what why? For like, no one’s stealing my damn concert ticket. It’s all my email. I’m fine. Yeah, and we’re seeing it now with like, Guy is like, a lot of those like esport guys and stuff like that, you know, like they, they invested millions and millions of dollars. And that was money that they could afford. And now they’re down huge. So let alone like think about the average people, you know, that spent fuck tons of their retirement funds their money, and now they’re down 75% of it.
Harry 15:20
it’s awful. Yeah. And I also think that like, I think with Bitcoin, like, it’s just like the head of the thing, right? It’s, it’s going to be that I really do think that so many institutions have now kind of like, bought into this and have their clients in it, that they’re not just gonna let Bitcoin die. But it’s gonna be the same thing with NF T’s too, right? There’s gonna be a couple main collections that stick around and hold their value just kind of like Bitcoin. And like, like, what are the big names that we all know? Like, it’s just like, in small caps to like, the long something. I’m like, Okay, what are the tickers that everyone’s paying attention to? Right? Like our DB x like that was a big runner. People were paying attention to people kind of love that long. You know, so that was one that I would keep on watch a little bit longer as far as like multi day stuff. Because you know, everyone is paying attention to like, what are the tickers that are not dying and just sticking around like almost like V route to like, that’s a name that we can both roll off our columns. And as for long trader like that stuff that I like, because it has that kind of cult following that staying power those VERU homies just like GME and AMC. Right. So I think Bitcoin has that kind of cult. I think a lot of people underestimate the Bitcoin called, you know, and it’s just the same thing as stock trading, right? People believe in this cult, they make friends in this cult, and they’re willing to put every last dime in it. So that is something good that like Bitcoin and etherium and a couple of stickers have, but as far as the ones that are not that popular, like people are messaging me these random tokens, like even Doge like Doge is gonna have some type of staying power. It’s gonna be around it may not 50, but it’s gonna stick around. Right?
Harry 17:03
These lifelines? Yeah. It’s the stuff that people know about that, I think will stick around and not die completely and go to zero. Like, despite, it’s just like, you know, despite how bad some of these companies are in trading, like, what was the ticker that went fucking bankrupt and still shot up, you know,
James 17:24
hertz? HTZ
COVID and the Domino Effect of Recession.
Harry 17:25
Yeah. Like,once you get these cult mentalities? Yeah, anything can happen. So I think that is something good that that has gone for it as well. And I think overall market like everyone is saying it’s fucking random low ass numbers, it never ends up getting there even in COVID Everyone was saying that we’re entering a crazy depression, I feel like what people thought we were going to enter into in COVID is kind of happening now. So it took a while on a couple quarters to kind of develop because obviously you can’t get away with printing that much money and not having some inflation and obviously there’s the oil situation like everything’s just kind of happening at once which is really hitting people but also I think that like you know, I think like it’ll be a domino effect first thing to go is going to be the stock market and we’re probably going to see housing prices you know, take a bit of a hit and then you know, we’ll see a couple other assets and it’ll just go one by one cycling through but I don’t know if we’re gonna get a full on recession where everything happens at once like if we have right now the market crashing housing prices crashing everything just crashing everyone’s assets crashing I mean depression that would be really really bad but I think if we can kind of get away with okay the market crash but now the market is starting to go up okay, but housing is crashing now. Okay, well the market started to kind of go up it’s giving people a bit of like relief and that’s kind of like if we could kind of run that type of cycle I think everyone will be okay but if we all go at once, you know that would really struggle.
James 19:04
That would crush it but I guess my big I like to kind of like have my bear case for Bitcoin in general is you know when you talk to people about it, a lot of them they they’re treating it like they’re trading the indexes like like people like most people I know who aren’t into stock picking right they invest most of their money into indexes boo spy whatever, and you know, as ruined spire coming down, you can pretty much auto buy and this is just historically you could auto buy for the rest of your life in come out. Okay, you know, like I mean, I was still buying boons by when our I invest in boo but I was still buying that. You know, when we’re at the highs as I’m still buying or at the lows you know, I mean, that’s, that’s exactly what’s going to happen but Bitcoin people are treating it that way. When history. They’re like, Oh, we’re buying the dip. Buying dip? How much can you average down before you’re like, it’s nothing? You know, before you’re just screwed. And there’s no history to prove that Bitcoin Yeah, what? We’ve had a couple little crypto winters they call it insurance. It’s bounced back. But what’s going to happen at the time, it just doesn’t, you know, this, there’s no, there’s no history to prove it. And that’s why I’ve kind of stayed clear of investing in it myself, because I’m like, there’s just not it’s not there. And, and to kind of touch on your, like recession point. I think the biggest thing, and I guess this is where, I guess one benefit of maybe the internet and social media might be the only reason that we haven’t gone into like, full on crisis, panic mode, sometimes I feel like is because there is social media, and people can see, you know, like others and like what’s going on in the world, whereas like, you know, if you think about the past, like, in Oh, wait, like, after everything went like the normal people were like the last to figure out about it. You know what I mean? Like we no one found out about like, socks crashing until or just happened, banks and all this kind of knew before us. But now it’s like, now that we have so much access to financial knowledge, like through Twitter, through whatever, that we know, when things are coming. We know how bad things can get. So I think like even the average person can kind of like, take control of their own destiny here with like, the retirements and all that and that’s, that’s why I think we had this little downturn. And, again, I know, I know, a lot of people who think we’re going to have this like a depression. And I just think it’s I My opinion is that it’s going to just be a long time. Shitting economy, like for a bit?
Harry 21:34
I think so too.
James 21:35
I mean, we’ll see, we’ll see come winter how things change, I think people aren’t really talking about yet. How, you know, there’s going to be people having to choose between putting oil into their house to heat it versus buying food, because you know, the cost and like, you know, average.
Harry 21:49
thing like food also skyrockets, that will be definitely not a problem.
James 21:55
It’ll crush people, you know, but, but we’ll see, I guess I want to I like time stamping these and seeing where we are.
The Small Cap Market Is Heating Up
James 22:01
And then that way we can come back and listen, we’re either going to be we’re either going to be right, or it’s going to go the complete opposite way. But, you know, it’s funny, though, through all of this crap going on right now, the small cap market has actually been like heating up like really nicely. And I don’t know if that’s from Bitcoin collapsing, and like, a lot of the crypto guys are like shit, I’m not making money. There’s no momentum and crypto. Let’s go back to small caps like, yeah, I don’t know what it is like, what do you think? Well, I think
Harry 22:29
I saw a tweet about this the other night, like people know that their brokerage accounts are not that, like you can always take money in and out of your brokerage account. There’s never going to be a broker that just flips the switch. Not now. Anyway. I think there has been one in the past that did a little. Yeah, but um, yeah. I didn’t want to go ahead and say that one out there. But I think people are realising that there is a little bit more security. Well, there’s a lot more security as far as like stocks go, like, sure. We had a day where Robin Hood halted trading for one day. Yeah, sure, we had, you know, a couple of little incidents like that. But we’re not full on saying, Okay, you’re limiting your withdrawals, you can’t withdraw any money for the end of time. So we feel like it’s getting better, right? Like, we’re not here. And that. So thinks that gives a little bit of security to also, you know, stocks are on fire. But I also feel like, once we see small caps running like this, again, we have found a bit of a bottom. As far as though the overall market right? To me, that’s a good sign, right? It’s just like an COVID when we’re going up and up and up and up and up and up. Right. Now that we’re starting to kind of get that bottom, I feel like we’re going to, you know, be back up again. And to me, like, I kind of like, I’m not really the biggest data guy just because I feel like just saying shit happens every day. You know, like, I mean, it’s okay, like if you are like a data person, there’s like maybe three people that make really big money from it. And then there’s some other guys who like do okay in the middle, but like a lot of new traders if you’re just thinking that you’re gonna have this like magic like system or whatever, I think that that’s pretty naive. But I mean also because like to me like the same things happen every single day and the same patterns repeat every single day. There’s no need for me to to want that extra security. I feel like the system people just can’t accept the risk yet that trading has, and if you’re just like, Okay, I’m gonna play the odds every day. And I’m going to you know, I’m gonna say okay, like, this is where I should be buying on these certain types of stocks. This is where I should be selling on these certain types of stocks you will be okay, but some people who are emotional get chopped up in the middle, that really kind of take a beating, and that’s why I like it. You know, a lot of those people ended up not doing so well just because like they’re not patient enough to wait for the right entries. They’re not patient enough to wait for the right exits. And you know, so I think like, definitely a lot of those system guys just can’t accept the risk yet, which, you know, it will come eventually. But now I think those guys are going to have a really, really hard time going forward. Like people are like, Oh, it’s winter for system traders like Nah, bro. Like, this is just how it is like, you know, like, not every stock fades every single day.
James 25:33
Yep. Oh, I think I think the problem with like, systems,
Harry 25:38
doing a lot of like, that type of stuff, too. I don’t mean to like, shit talk.
James 25:42
Yeah. And I’ll kind of explain but like I, you know, I think, I think there’s a difference between there’s the problem is, this idea of system trading has gotten lumped in, like a giant category, because of like Twitter, right? Like you, you see the guys who like they claim to have this like system that they enter, and they hold for a feed or, or it’s gonna do this, it’s gonna do that. And I just find that 99% of those guys, then because I’ve talked to a lot of them, they, it’s just bullshit. And a lot of them are just products of like, a really lucky market.
How Do You Handle Drawdowns in the Market?
James 26:14
Yeah. You know, and that’s in that’s the thing, but, you know, like, like, the guys I trade with, like, I trade with bear, and Tyler, you know, like, I mean, we’re changing and adapting, like, every single day, like in like, we’re taking in, like, plays and stuff. And like, we’ve developed like a system that works for us, as far as like the changing markets and stuff. But the problem is with the system, guys, is they refuse to change. And if, if you don’t change, like, I personally think that a lot of people thought that the COVID market was like, that’s just because stocks and stocks ran like crazy, right? Maybe you take a few cuts on the way up, but they were up like multiple dollars, and then you could just kind of you get in a good entry, and you hold all day, and yeah, it fucking paid you out huge. I mean, we see it and see guys making good money. But nowadays, dude, we’ve been we’ve had to adapt so much. Because if that dude, the market is not the same way, these stocks fucking grind, they whip out of nowhere, you know, they do this, they do that. And it’s like, if you treat it the same, every single day, you’re screwed. And I think that 99% of the system guys probably blew up, you know, or are in a significant drawdown, which, again, I’ve experienced draw downs. Because if you have a system, it’s not going to work every single day, and it might not work every single month. And that’s like a lesson that people have to learn is that sometimes you just have to either not trade or develop other strategies to work while that time isn’t, you know, like we do swing trading as well, it just so happened that our swing started to correlate with the bear market.
Harry 27:46
In the bear market, Maggie fucking you’re not even trading.
James 27:51
Guys live in the life and we’re like, not just our signal, you know, it’s like, we can’t do that right now. We can’t do it right now. But normal market times? Sure. Maybe our like, strategy isn’t really working that great. Now we can focus on swings, or we could focus on this, that whatever. And it’s, it’s, that’s, that’s the reality do but a lot of these guys I got a DM the other day, because they go How do you handle the draw downs? You know, and it’s like, dude, if you don’t have a system in place, for a drawdown, then like, it’s gonna feel just real blow up. Like every dollar you make, you’re gonna lose it all, you know, like, we we do, you know, as tight as as our p&l goes up, we risk more as our p&l goes down, we risk less and, you know, it’s I just think people need to understand like, I don’t know, I have you ever had the kind of like, a losing period? For sure. Yeah, we never really talked much about it, I suppose.
Harry 28:39
Yeah, like, I guess like, see, it’s never been like too, too bad. That’s the only losing period that I can really remember. Was my I tweeted like, I mean, like actual bad losing period was when I transition from first bounce to kind of what I’m doing now. That was a little fucking rough. I gotta say, bounces didn’t really work that well. So I had to transition and you like, I didn’t take big losses because I’m I like to manage this super well, where I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna risk 10 cents 20 cents. I have a set plan. This is it if I’m wrong, I’m fucking wrong. And so I was wrong a lot when I started first kind of transitioning into what I’m kind of doing now with just kind of trying to get a good average on a lot of these objects, you know, whatever. But yeah, and I remember I was also with because I saw Dom’s podcast on either story or whatever, when he was transitioning to listed and he mentioned me to, like where, you know, I was in kind of like a drawdown period of like, coming in like taking some else. But it takes time to learn, you know, Going from first downs to like a long type of not necessarily system but like a long just trading listed Long’s is very, very difficult, right? You have everything coming at you. It’s not like you have to pay a Borel fee, you have access to trade every single ticker on the long side. So how do you differentiate between tickers that run and tickers that don’t? Right? And also, how do you manage your expectations for yourselves, right? And a lot of it comes down to what you say, you have to adapt every single day. And you have to say what type of market oriented right fucking now, are we in a fading market? Right? Are we in a type of situation where it should just wait every day? Right? You know, you, you cannot always automatically assume that we’re going to be in a strong market. And that’s what I was talking about. Like, now we’re in a stronger market. Like, I don’t know if you’ve seen myself recently. But like, yeah, you know, on bat, I was like, okay, I can hold this a little bit longer pass the 50s. Right, we’re doing the mill, fucking minute.
James 31:02
Stolen, pass yourself and usually sell tops pretty well.
Harry 31:05
Yeah, I usually sell the tops pretty well, like I’ve been last two days. I’ve been like, you know, well, obviously on TBLT or whatever, you know, I just sold highs, because it was really starting to struggle up there. And ended up going to four four was my target on it. But you know, I sold like, up in 3.50 3.60. That’s fine, you know, with the AJT. But once well sold into something.
How Do You Adjust Yourself on a Losing Period?
James 31:31
Not going to nail every top. Yeah. How do you adjust? How do you adjust yourself on a losing period? Like Because? Because you’re obviously like, more discretionary? And like you, you know, you just you kind of deem whatever size you’re gonna use based on on day to day, I suppose. So, how do you how do you change that when, like, when when you notice something’s not working? You know, how do you adjust yourself personally?
Harry 31:53
Um, well, for me, I’m just saying, okay, like, a lot of the times, I’m kind of like using set size per market conditions. So if I failed, the market hasn’t been that great, I will size down significantly. If I feel the markets hot, then I’m gonna start to like size up and get super, super aggressive, because like, as long trader you have to because you never know when it’s going to start dying again. So you got to take the fucking grass when it’s green, and you got to size up aggressively and be willing to do that. Um, and also, as far as just like, day to day targets, like, obviously, this was a really strong week. So I’m going to push myself to hold a bit past high of day, right. And maybe as far as like, lines go, maybe I can get away with taking some thinner lines rather than like ever lines. And as far as kind of fades go. It’s really saying, okay, you know, like, I took a small patent on that yesterday that I posted. Yep, you know, it was 20 cent loss or whatever. 15 or so cent loss, but I thought like, after I looked at it, I was like, Okay, this was day two probably shouldn’t have taken it, whatever. But yeah, day two’s had kind of been decently hot. That was your thing. That was your thing for like three months yeah, like day two gap UPS had been like decently hot so I think I was right to take that train just didn’t work. I ended up failing which sign every system trader on Twitter is like, perfect execute. I’m like, Man, this shit fucking faded all day free money. Shut up, bro. I’m like oh my fucking god
James 33:25
That’s why I know that again. And this is someone who traded it the day before.
Harry 33:31
A broken clock can be fucking right twice a day. Oh, yeah. Fucking remember that.
James 33:36
I know. It’s like again. This is what I think is so hilarious also about like the idea of system trading and like so if anyone’s ever interested in that concept like this is very important. You will lose so fucking much and you can never like beat your chest on the wins. Because like your wins Yes, when that happens great money it like supersedes the losses huge and like XYZ boba. But you lose a lot like, like bat I’m pretty sure faded most of the day and then just ripped out of nowhere, or something like that was day one that could have been one of the other tickers. But like, that happens all the time. So like, if you’re just looking for these like, Dude, it’s so true, though. You know, you get one stock that finally just collapses and it’s like, bro, where were you yesterday? Where were you yesterday when this thing fucking ripple Ryan day and fucked you over you know, so it’s not as easy as people make it out to be And honestly, I think it’s that’s why people message me all the time. Like, oh, you know, should I do this? I’m like, dude, probably not like it’s fucking it’s terrible. You know? It can be terrible. So it’s just funny, but I’m glad to see the small caps are like starting to come back. I’m glad to see we’re actually starting to like see momentum shifts and there’s plays for both Long’s and shorts. Whereas like a month ago, we were talking dude, the market was terrible. It was like, there was barely any opportunity. Like I feel like you were barely even wanting to show up and it was I was like, oh, I want to fucking be here.
Harry 35:00
I wasn’t going to go out. Yeah, we went through a small period where I wasn’t really winning big, you know, I was making money every day, but I wasn’t necessarily winning big. I wasn’t losing big either. It was kind of like a little bit of a chop. Now, I feel like this type of market is where I excel, I’m going to size up completely until the market tells me otherwise. Like, we haven’t seen stock, open up and just fade all day for a while.
James 35:29
No, no, it’s been a bit. I mean, yet. That’s why I think a lot of short sellers have to kind of adjust to that, because these stocks aren’t weak right now. If you hold on all day, man, like, get fucking bombarded. Yeah.
Harry 35:45
I think the summer could have the potential to be hot, because Kryptos down, a lot of people are like, Oh, I’m gonna go back to small caps, and they’re trying to make money at small caps. It could be a fucking nasty summer. It could be a fucking set one for me. Oh, for sure. You know, so I’m definitely and I hope they’re all small cap shorts. You know, hopefully, yeah.
James 36:06
I mean, you need the guys. You want the guys that are trying to fucking, you know, hold and all that shit, because they’re the ones that create these like Monster squeezes as it is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, it’s
Harry 36:20
what do you think of the live trading on Wednesday?
James 36:23
Yeah it was sick. Yeah, I think I was I it’s funny, I was actually working.
James 36:28
But I like put an air pod in. And it was like watching and listening at the same time, which is probably not great. But I just wanted to watch and shit. But I think a lot of people the best part about it was the amount of like trolls and stuff that were like, trolling Alex and bow and like, while like they were a little red, and like she was going on and then like, all of a sudden, like that Alex is up 20k And like, you know, everyone’s just logged off. Everyone’s got fine. You know, it’s like it’s over. You know, it’s something that I took away from that. And this is something that as like someone who is discretion, like Alex like that trading style, people need to understand like, you have to be comfortable with the with I don’t want to say p&l swings because that’s that’s not what is like Alex the way people just see the big numbers and they get flustered. So that’s the dumb shit is people see like, he’s down eight grand knowing oh my god, but to Alex eight grand is like, fucking understanding waterbottle you know what I mean? He doesn’t give a fuck. So it’s like in terms of your own account. Like he said it i He’s like, I’m playing the chart. I’m not playing my p&l. He’s like, my p&l could be down in this step. The other thing he said, If the chart tells me I’m wrong, then I’m wrong. And I’ll get out if he tells me I’m right. I look and I’m, and I’m greedy. You know? So I think people need to take that away and just start stop being so like, tight with everything, their stops, there’s something about the money aspect as much as possible. And then you realise trading was a lot easier.
Harry 37:47
It was interesting, because I was long that ticker actually, in the morning that Alex was reading, and I was listening to him and I was like, like, it wasn’t that I disagreed with anything. It was just for me. I was like, Okay, I’m gonna hold on my target. Right? You know, so it was interesting, because, like, obviously, I told him to nine. And I never thought that he was wrong, either. Like, that was what was interesting. I was like, Yeah, I see that. But I just held to my target, because that was kind of what I planned for. And I was like, I told myself going into it, like, I wanted to listen to the webinar. But I was going to stick to my own plan. Because a lot of people, like I didn’t like because Alex was like, you know, don’t follow me down, whatever. So I was like, you know, I’m, I think that this can hit nine today, which they all warned for as well. They owe more than that, that could hit nine, right. So I was like, okay, like, I even wrote in the chat. Like, I think this can hit nine. That’s my plan. That’s how I kind of see it, it hit nine, it ended up going a little bit higher, but I sold them tonight because that was my plan. That was my target. Right? But it was interesting, you know, kind of seeing the way that they think and I never disagreed with anything. I was just like, oh, gonna hold to my target, you know, if they end up stuffing me If this ends up going completely lower. I knew it was like highly highly manipulated. I knew it was like a highly highly fucking Yeah, you know, crazy tickets I just held on my target. And the thing is, was like, like, I never really thought it was very, very interesting for me because I was like, he’s right. You know? He’s like, there’s stuff there. I’m like, Yep, he’s definitely right. I just thought that we could fuck him hit and I’m and we ended up hitting nine and then maybe going a little bit higher. Did we go close to 9.50
James 39:34
yeah, 9.40 or something was the top I think yeah,
Harry 39:38
they just ended up blowing everyone out but I thought well, what was smart for Alex was he was like, Okay, I’m gonna use a set size I have set wrist I have set you know everything. He also nailed all the fucking side chicks to like no one even paid attention to those fuckin chicks that he nailed. Everyone was focused on the object, you know? Go figure. I mean.
James 40:00
there’s there’s two sides to every trade. And I think that, that shows a lot of trader maturity and us that like, you know, there’s someone who’s as smart and like talented as Alex and bow and, and you’re still able to stick to your plan and like Dude, that’s 99% of people’s problems is they, they listen to others and they get influenced by others, and then they stick to that they don’t stick to their plan that would have worked originally, like, imagine if you bailed on that. And, of course, you know, you were like, oh, Alex is sure I gotta get out. Like, just because someone is short doesn’t mean that his trades not gonna work. It doesn’t mean that a long treaters not gonna work. You know, it’s, it’s just, that’s impressive that you can do that because it’s hard.
Harry 40:37
I was trying to like, I already because when I’m in a trade, I always try to understand like, what someone else’s thesis would be like, if red V whap. Like and I was looking to short, like, what would my thesis be? Right? If we’re at fuckin, you know, high a day. Right? What would be too short there? Right? What would I be wanting to see? For me to get in short there, right? If we’re at, you know, above high today, if we’re going into 950, and we don’t clearly break above 950. Okay, well, that is something that I will look for as well. So I never really thought Alex was wrong. I was like, he’s right here. Right? You know, like, I’m like, okay, like, yes, that’s valid, just as valid. That’s what I was thinking in my head too. I just had that nine target. So I was willing to kind of sit through that to let things kind of play out. Right. You know, so it was interesting, because, like, everything he saw, I was like, yes, that is exactly fucking correct. It may fade from here, but I had accepted my risk and that was the crucial thing that I had done was I was listening to him and I was like, if he’s right and attacks that is great for him. You know, I accepted my loss early on on that type of sticker. And it’s funny when we see these poll numbers looming above the top of the chart they always fucking find a way to make the stock get there and stop everyone you know? Yep. 100% It’s funny like if you see 350 above high today, they find a way to fucking bring it there. It was just like jam that day. I saw five months and I was like, I think Jan can fucking get to five you know so I went I got a very very good average on jam themed around in between got the five I sold out and do you remember that day it’s just stuff all the way down? It was just looming up there was just chilling. I was like, Okay, this has potential for five highbay whatever we got the volume and it worked. And you know, you’re just gonna stick to your fucking targets like people are like man like what what did you see down there? What did you down there? I’m like, bro, I just thought that it could get to fucking five I don’t know how I literally told some people that like I don’t know how that was just my target on the fucking right yep. Again, and when things don’t go my way I’m gonna cut immediately.
James 42:51
Yeah, that’s that’s trading in a nutshell right? It’s like it’s so funny. It’s such a simple idea but like again 90% of people can’t fucking do it because they use their minds are so heavily influenced and like that’s kind of why it once they get into position dude it’s like alright, set my stop and I kind of leave like I don’t need to sit there because like I don’t want to watch it because it’s like the same thing is like getting lost in like tape right? Like Like obviously this is a master and and artists are like reading tape and all that ship but a lot of times you just confuse yourself and then you fuck up your own way and like the amount of times I see a massive buyer pop up just to like be fake or just whatever it’s like via if I change my plan according to every time I saw a buyer or seller honestly I’d be I would have no success yeah literally.
Harry 43:34
fuck everybody how many times do you see a buyer drop lower lower lower it was just like knowing that there were buyers every time the stock bounced it just kept fucking going lower right probably covering.
James 43:48
Yep 100% 100% but like it’s like we said I’m just glad the markets kind of back and you know we’ll have a lot more to talk about you know week to week and we can talk about some trades.
Harry 43:59
we and we might bring some fucking people on to talk about it with us just know people not even necessarily you know it like we can just talk to fucking everyone and just do something like that we run some shit like that you know.
James 44:12
Oh yeah so if any any guests ever do want to come on you know DM area right? We can set something up if you want to come learn if you have questions if you want to just talk about you know market and stuff going on please let us know
Harry 44:23
I feel like everyone feels like they have to be like this system millionaire Yeah, whatever but like for us like it’s fine like we talked to regular fucking members every single day. We talked to everyone every single day you know if you want to come on here and be anonymous and you know set your name or whatever and don’t want to talk and don’t want to talk and show your face like That’s fucking fine too. You know? Like we’re just trying to we’re just trying to make things is like entertaining but also educational like to try and find that balance something that you can you know, chill and listen to in the car but like we’re not like, pull up charts. ABCD here section one dash two rule like that you know
James 45:02
100% So All right cool well thank you guys we will be back with another episode soon and we’ll see you then alright