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James 0:02
What’s going on guys? Welcome back to another episode of the after hours podcast. I know we took a week off, and that’s my bad I’ve been busy as shit. So thankfully, Harry and Mike have been able to work around my busy schedule, which is a huge help. So thank you guys. And so yeah, so we have Mike on who’s one of the junior moderators at MIC. And in traditional form I guess Mike, how did you get into trading? And how did you end up in MIC?

Mike 0:28
Yeah, so I think I started like how everyone else, you know, everyone kind of started like, I searched up, you know, penny stocks because that was like the thing like, that was like the quickest way to making money. So then I looked up how to make how to trade penny stocks. And then you know, who do you Who else you see the first website, so then I signed up with him. And then it was just like, I had no idea what I was doing. Like, I was trying to watch the videos, but they’re just like, they’re pretty outdated videos. Like, you still kind of have to know what you’re doing. But I had no idea where he was like the terminology and all this stuff he was talking about and, and all he says is like he always says like, don’t listen to me, like, I can’t trade. That’s why I teach or something like that. I’m like, okay, whatever. But anyway, so yeah, I lost money. Just trading like that. But I had no I had no, no like no process. No, I was just basically gambling for like the first first year.

James 1:35
Yep. And how long ago was this at this point?

Mike 1:39
So I’ve been trading sorry. I’ve been trading for about it’s about four years now. The first two years because MIC is going off for about what three years?

How Did You Get Into Trading?

Mike 1:52
Yep. Yeah, so I started trading about a year before MSc and like, I wouldn’t even consider it trading. It’s just literally like, I’m just I wake up at like, six feet 6:30am over here for me in California. But I would just wake up and then I would just like by whatever!

Harry 2:21
Was it like was it like OTC NASDAQ?

Mike 2:25
it was. It was It wasn’t NASDAQ, it was so it was it was still NASDAQ Not, not not the OTC boards, but I would just buy like I would just long the breakout of you know, whatever, whatever was in play like the Top gainers? Yeah, and then like I would have some success and then after I just started I just kept on losing money and then I signed up for another chat room and this other chat room basically he told us I kind of learned a little bit he he knew a little bit more than I would say the other one but still he he would teach me teach us like bad habits like he would tell you like go all in with your all your mind power. So like a small account still so like back then this was when I was trading with sure West I don’t know if you guys remember.

James 3:27
Like 30 dogs or dogs right here.

Harry 3:32
Like you guys. You guys got nesting and squirrels back there.

Mike 3:37
My brother and I got it.

Harry 3:44
Like little little either small dogs fighting each other worlds fighting over an acorn or a fight over a piece of cheese.

Alex’s Trading Strategy and How It Works

James 3:54
I thought I was going crazy. Dude, I didn’t know what I was hearing.

Harry 3:58
I thought it was someone in the back of James’s office.

James 4:08
That’s funny, but so so at this point, you’re with short trader, and you’re not really fun to consistency. You’re kind of just having those, like, some wins more losses than I’m assuming. Right?

Mike 4:19
Yeah. So like, I would win, like I would still I would, I would use all my buying power. But this is I’m using a small account. So then like, Okay, you have like about one buying power. So I would, I will put in like three to 5000 Should I’ll put all our bet I would trade all of it at once. Like, I want my money. Like the first couple of minutes. I’m like, Dang, this is so easy.

Harry 4:42
$20,000 worth of buying power.

Mike 4:45
Like, why do people say it’s so hard? It’s like, this is easy, and then I would have some success but then eventually I would just lose it all. And then for like the first year I would just keep on I would just keep on I deposit more money every time I lose every time I blow up account. So then, like, it’s just like I’m gambling the whole time and then yeah. And then I finally, one day I listened to chat with traders with with Bao. And I’m listening. Yeah, I’m like now this this guy sounds like like a normal guy like, you know someone like you could just, like kick it with so that I’m listening to him like, man if he sounds like a regular guy if he could do it, I feel like I feel like I could do it. So I’m following him. And then like, this was before MRC. So when he whenever bow used to tweet like he never tweeted like how he does now like how he shows like all the all his tricks like that. Yeah, exactly. I feel like people don’t understand like how, how lucky they are to to actually get off balance charts, because back then he would say I would wait all day, like every day I would wait for him to tweet just to see like what what he posted so I kind of learn from him because sometimes he’ll he’ll he’ll tweet like his his executions. And then I would have to like backtrack and post, target chart, whatever he traded and see kind of like dissect how he traded.

James 6:20
Yeah, but it’s funny as hell because when no one we’ve ever brought on it really ever talks about like looking for bows, charts. And I actually knew I knew Alex on Twitter before bow. So like, I would do the same thing as you when I wanted to post I’d be like, oh, I need to see his charts for the day and see how I reverse engineer. Sure, it’s true man. He’s got an online now that get bows fills. I mean, he’s bow with that would even trying is giving away so much of the secret sauce. And he doesn’t care because he knows 90% of people aren’t going to put in the work. So it’s like, it’s amazing how lucky these people are. Yeah, yeah. It’s true. So then it’s so so so he.

Mike 7:00
I’m sorry. No, go ahead.

Harry 7:02
Here. No, I’ll take those.

How Did You Get Started in My Investing Club?

James 7:04
I was just saying like.

Harry 7:07
There might be like a bit of like, lag time difference in all of us, that might be the problem. And might we might be like lagging by like two or three seconds. But so anyway, you you know, you started in the other room. And eventually you kind of have your chat with your bow. And then they kind of open up MIC. You know, how do you kind of get started in MIC? What kind of strategies do you use now? And just like, you know, how is your normal trading kind of bent, you know, you’re like a junior mod, you know, you kind of became a junior mod through like, helping out and showing up every day. And like, kind of how I kind of just like, kind of maybe walk us through how that kind of went.

Mike 7:48
Yeah. So in the beginning, once a day, about Alex opened MIC, I signed up. But then now like, I’ve been trading for about a year and a half already. And then I have all these bad habits from other other chat rooms. So now I have to slowly like, try to like, learn unlearn everything. Yeah. So it took me a while. So it took me took me a good, good minute. So it took me about a year and a half to unlearn everything. And then finally, like, start getting consistent, like before, like, I was consistent after, like, a year and a half and MIC. But I wasn’t consistently profitable, like, I wouldn’t be consistent, I would make money. And I would just lose it all. Because, you know, like, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have like a hard stop or I will overtrain you know, stuff like that. But then now that I started kind of really like getting I was I was getting tired of losing money.

Treating Trading Like a Job

Mike 8:45
So then I just told myself like, like, I really have to, like lock it down. So then now I make sure like my process is I don’t trade you know, I’m mainly a short seller. So my process is I try to mimic like pretty much like Alex like I’m trade only usually only like the first half an hour, the first hour and a half. And then just trade the side chicks avoid, you know, I try to avoid the Nano flows. So basically all my bread and butter is basically like, you know, just the side checks. So I’m just I’m just waiting for the backside, hitting the Pops.

James 9:25
I love that. So so what what pushed you kind of over the edge of like consists because you said like, you were concerned you were losing money, then you were consistent at trading but not necessarily making money. And now you’re making money. So what was it kind of that pushed you from from I guess the last point to now what were the changes you made and what were like the biggest things to focus on.

Mike 9:46
I think once Yeah, I think once I started treating it like as an actual business and stop treating as like gambling. After I treat it like an actual job. I think that’s when and everything kind of like, like that, like not really, I guess, I guess you could say like the aha moment like it just kind of like, kind of just kind of clicked for me. And ever since then it’s just like I’ve been. I’ve been, you know, pretty well, I’m pretty, pretty good. I’m pretty well, yeah.

James 10:14
I mean, we hear people say like, treat trading like a job all the time. And like, it’s something I do believe in too. But for you, I guess what did that entail? Like, what were the changes you had to make to treat it like a job rather than just gambling?

Mike 10:27
So basically, just I stopped trading zombie hour. So I mean, I’ll trade it throughout the day, but I wouldn’t avoid like, you know, because usually it has that grind up zombies or avoid that low and then come back during, like, reversal hour. And then really, that’s just all been that’s really, that’s really pretty much kind of just changed the game for me just avoiding. Avoiding the zombie Er, yeah.

Mike 10:57
hard stops using hard stops.

James 11:00
That’s amazing. That’s cool, man. Yeah,

Harry 11:02
I was just gonna say so in the morning. Like, you know, you wake up, like, I’m Mike Tran, I wake up, you know, what do you what do you kind of looking for as in terms of like, maybe like limes to scale and like, and like kind of your process like longing, a lot of our sort of shorting a lot of the like, kind of non hot chick like, kind of lower volume tickers? Like, are you kind of looking at VWAP? Maybe a little bit over VWAP ? Or maybe you’re better at long or shorting a little bit under View app? Like, like, where? What areas? Are you really focusing on to start kind of going short? You know, maybe you’re kind of using Alex’s watch list as a guide as well, you know, like, there’s a tonne of ways that you can do it. So I’m just kind of wondering, you know, like, what’s your process in the morning? You know, stuff like that.

Mike 11:50
Yeah. So, my processes and morning is I look at whatever, whatever stocks are in play for the day. So I wake up at 4am over here, which is seven, say 7am. Market time. And then I wake up look at whatever stocks are in play, I locate a located early, and then I will make my wife watch this first. And then I will look at you know, Alex’s watch or James, James, your watch list and compare it. And usually my my mind is pretty similar to your I got to Alex’s every morning. So it makes me feel better, like more confident in my in my in my plan for the day. And then. And then what’s the market? I try to I try to avoid pre market. But if there’s a good if there’s a good like, if it comes if it’s already broken in pre market that and it’s like bouncing to my line, then I’ll get in like half size or normal size. And then yeah, so once market opens. I like I like stocks that are really broken down. Like, yeah, if they did, and then I just looked for that. Is it reasonable? It’s like our like Alex and Ballard talks about it, especially out he talks about it all the time. And it’s YouTube Live, like every week, and it’s like, sometimes I feel like he’s giving, they’re giving so much for free. It’s like people don’t understand, like, how much how valuable there’s stuff if I just wait, uh, you know, like, I just let it tank and then I just sort them.

Harry 13:25
That’s good. So you’re more shorting like you’re more like, like stock is kind of like broken down, you wait for it to kind of pop and then you wait for a kind of a rejection. And then you’re looking to short that kind of bounce. Yeah, so you’re not really pouring into the strength, you’re kind of waiting for it to kind of confirm and then shorting that bounce and letting it go lower.

Mike 13:48
I mean, whoa, the charts already, like it’s already mapped out, you know, it’s already it’s already charted out for me already. So all the lines are there. So I know where my lines are, I know where I know where to base my risks. So I just wait. Basically, I just say my fantasy origin and just wait, we point out within the bounds.

The Value of Having a Trading Process

James 14:09
See, it’s cool that like you get to see it. So I love to do the podcast because you get to see what a traders like. Like, I think Alex and Bao were the first first two guys so publicly talking about like a trading a process. I mean, I’ve been on Twitter a long time. Like I’ve never seen that before it really them. And I think it’s cool to see like you who started trading with no process and like seeing now like you can right there, you just explain your whole trading strategy. And people without a process can’t do that. So I think it’s cool. And it’s such a clear cut difference between a rookie trader and someone who is at least consistently profitable is that they can define their edge. And I think it’s cool. It must feel pretty good for you to have gotten to this point. It’s not even been that long. Just a couple years is nothing.

Mike 14:52
Yeah, exactly. Yes. Really. Pretty much all MIC like I feel so grateful for for Belen Alexander Last minute that they made started at MIC. Because if if without MIC we know like, I probably would still be lost. I probably wouldn’t know how to. I promise there’ll be gambling. I probably would have gave up by now. Really? Honestly. Yeah. So far like, I think so.

Mike 15:17
Like, you wake up in the morning and then you lose your money.

James 15:24
It is, it was brutal. I remember the early days like waking up and just getting immediately slapped in the face. And I’m like, why the fuck do I do this to myself? This isn’t fun anymore. We’ve talked about this. We’ve all been there, right? Oh, yeah.

Harry 15:37
Oh, yeah. Very beginning. I mean, it’s very, very tough when you first start. And so when you were kind of first starting out, like, you know, you’re in the kind of like the other room or whatever, you were kind of, like gambling? How were you able to kind of like fund your account back then. And like, as far as like now, like, have you kind of just said, Okay, I’m just going to try to like, because there’s a lot of people in MIT who are like, they keep their jobs and they say, Okay, I’m going to trade to supplement my income, and I’m going to trade for a little bit of money on the side. So like, back then how are you? You know, funding your accounts back then? And like, how are you? You know, did you quit your job now? Or are you still, you know, working? And also because you’re in California, right? So you can just wake up in the morning trade, and then you can easily go to work, right?

Mike 16:25
Yeah, so back then. I had I had I had my own business, I had a couple of businesses. But now I had a closed all the business because of COVID. So right now, I’m just doing full arms full time trading. So before, like, that’s why I try and treat it like gambling because, like, I have money, you know, I have money coming in. And I didn’t mind like kinda like, it was just like going to the casino to me, like, I would just deposit money. And after a while, I just started getting tired of it. Like, even my girlfriend at the time. She was like, why don’t you? Why do you keep trading like you keep losing money? Like you’re getting angry? And it’s like, like, why are you still doing it? And I’m telling you like, because like, you know, this is my passion.

James 17:10
Because I’m a psychopath

Mike 17:13
I think well yeah, I think after after once I once it really wouldn’t really clicked for me is when I really treated like, like, I treat it like a business. I wasn’t working anymore. So I was like, this is like, either I get my shit together. Or, you know, I gotta start working. And so yeah.

James 17:31
Are the businesses gone for good for becayse if COVID Are they shut down?

Mike 17:35
I shut it down before COVID So I had my own car. Like I had a car I used to sell cars back then. Then it was going well, but then it started slowing down. So I had to cut it. I had to close it down before COVID actually given now I’m I’m just trading full time. I also read Bulldog. That’s why I have a lot of that’s all you hear on the side like

James 17:59
Chickens back there. So yeah.

Advice for People Looking To Get Into Full-Time Trading

Harry 18:03
Love to hear like, like what you were kind of doing like before and what you’re kind of doing now and like that regard because I really do find that interesting because like everyone has their own things that they love to do outside of trading as well. You know? Yeah. I really don’t have anything that I love to do outside of trading.

James 18:20
Harry’s at MIC 24/7 I’ve never seen someone like him in Ballard do it they live in there I’m not convinced that they’re not robots.

Harry 18:29
Always lurking like if you think I’m not there then you don’t know because sometimes it’s like you know lurking just learning I’m just I’m just reading you know

James 18:44
I have a question so so I guess this is something I didn’t know about you but emotionally it must have it must be tough for you to make the leap into being a full time trader coming from a business that provided you some sort of income right? Yeah. What What kind of advice would you give to the people that a are looking to get into full time trading either being profitable versus not and how would you kind of recommend them navigate that with their their work or emotionally the toll that can take on you trying to become full time with you know, a business or or any of that?

Mike 19:18
Just wow, just don’t give up like, I lost a lot of money I lost in my first year or two years I lost probably over like 150,000 just because like gambling Yep. And just just don’t give up and you really have to take it serious like I was all I was doing was studying like 13 hours, 14 hours straight. Just grinding it until I get better. Like I’m always watching the videos. I still watched every you know, all the videos now. Basically just watch videos, back tests, and just just don’t get Well, cuz I mean, it took me it took me probably almost four years to kind of really get consistent. So like, I feel like anyone could do it really?

Harry 20:10
Yeah. And I think that’s kind of a good note to end on as well I think. Whereas like, you know, you went from like a real kind of gambling perspective to now saying, Okay, I’m going to just short the non hot tech stocks, the ones that don’t have a lot of attention that don’t have a lot of volume. And I’m going to actually consistently trade a strategy that can pay me every single day instead of gambling. And you know, I think that’s probably the most important lesson here is that number one don’t long the breakout and number two short the pops on broken stocks.

Mike 20:45
Yeah, pretty much. watch all the videos pay attention to you know, bow and Alex all the commentary.

James 20:53
I love it, man. I love it. Mike. Thank you for coming on, man. And please be more active in chat, bro. I love hearing from you. And I love the Jr. Bots. You guys. You guys all know your shit. So it’s fun hearing from you.

Mike 21:03
Thank god yeah, you guys do a lot of work for us. You guys help out a lot. So

James 21:09
keep trying, brother. We’re trying but, man thank you again. Thanks, guys.

 

 

About the Author
113 posts
James F.

James Freedlender is a driven day trader and entrepreneur hailing from Boston. Since embarking on his trading journey in 2018, James has honed his skills and specialized in trading penny stocks, with a focus on longer time frame moves. His dedication and sharp instincts have contributed to his success in the competitive financial world. In addition to his day trading accomplishments, James is a thriving business owner, running a popular barbershop and collaborating with his family in the design and renovation of homes and businesses. His entrepreneurial spirit and keen eye for detail have paved the way for continued success in his various ventures. Outside of his professional pursuits, James is an avid golfer and hiking enthusiast, always eager to explore new trails and perfect his swing. His love for travel has taken him to many corners of the world, enriching his life experiences and providing inspiration for his work. A firm believer in giving back, James is passionate about helping others achieve their financial goals and guiding them on the path to success. His wealth of knowledge, combined with his dedication to uplifting others, makes James Freedlender a respected and admired figure in both his professional and personal life.