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James 0:02
What’s going on guys? We are back with a very, very, very special episode of the after hours podcast. I have probably gotten 3000 DMS requesting Austin join us. So we are very excited to have him on. So Austin, thanks for coming on.
Austin 0:18
For sure.
James 0:22
No, I feel like we hear enough for you, Jesus. But we’re very excited to have you. And we traditionally we kind of always start this off same. How did you, you know, come to start trading? And how did you find MIC from that?
Austin 0:39
So I mean I mean, I started when I was in college, and like, the whole the typical, like in high school, I wanted to get into trading because of you know, this. I don’t even know what the f it was called, I think it was called Teen bids or some BS. I don’t know, if anyone else did that. In their high school. But anyway, there was this competition. And I didn’t get into it as much as I wanted to. But one of my classmates said, he got really into it. And like, and I was really kind of jealous, because I was like, Man, that’s kind of I wish I would have done that. And it’s over now. And then so, you know, I went to college. And I was like, you know, I do want to take finance. I knew I wanted to go to school for finance. And then when you go to school, for finance, get to pick whether you want like in Hawaii, you get to choose if you want Asian finance, corporate finance, you know, like financial planning or equity research. And so I was like, Well, I want to do stock market equity research. And that’s really how I got into it. And then, like, you know, you get into class and you see a whole bunch of people with thinkers, I saw a couple people with Thinkorswim charts. It’s like, what the fuck that I asked for? And that’s it. I was hooked. I was like, what program is it? I downloaded it Ichimoku cloud and you went through the whole thing.
James 2:04
I didn’t even I didn’t even know you grew up in Hawaii. For some reason. I always thought you moved there from somewhere else.
Austin 2:11
Oh, no, no, I’m, I’m a Hawaii boy. Just like, that’s where I’ve, I mean, this is home. I can’t live anywhere else. I’ll tell you what if I was, if I was a trader, I would not move here. You’re saying? But no, I can’t. Yes.
James 2:32
See, what amazes me about you is like, is you’re so you have to be so dedicated until trading because your time schedule is fuck. Like, I could never do what you do. Like No way.
Austin 2:43
You know, you you can No, no, no, you can because everything just becomes so like, it’s just, it’s not a question of, Oh, am I gonna wake up to trade today? It’s, I gotta wake up to train today. It’s like, I gotta wake up and see the market. Like it’d become such an addiction. And like, you guys know, like, it doesn’t matter where you live. Like, if you want to trade like you’re gonna do. Yeah. And that’s, I know, that’s how it is. It’s just, it’s just the way of life. It’s just like, well, I have to eat today.
Harry 3:16
Yeah.
James 3:19
I think like trading really?
Harry 3:21
Oh, sorry. I think like, as far as, when you kind of were getting started in those kind of, like, early growing phases? Like, was there any, like education out there? Because I mean, this is long before I might see you. This is long before everything else. So like, Were you in like, an early kind of like education thing early on?
Harry 3:47
Yeah. And so you kind of get into that, like everyone else? How did how did that kind of work out? And just like, I guess, like, how did you end up kind of getting to where you are now, you know?
How Did You Get Started in Shorting?
Austin 4:00
Progression? So the interesting thing is, I was actually like, I was incited, and, you know, like, he had the three different payment plans. I only chose the monthly one just because I was like, you know, and everything in there is don’t follow my alerts, don’t follow my alerts. And I actually didn’t like I did. And I was like, No, I’m not going to fall. And then I really started to learn like, oh, every time like there was an alert it would tank. And so like that’s kind of how was it but the interesting part was, I like the my classmate from high school, who I know his initials. And I saw us I saw his name, his username in that room. And that’s, and that was just like, Oh, he’s in here to that. And I didn’t like him actually. But I saw him in there. It’s like, Dude, this is the place to be. And so that’s how I really got started and really like it I remember even Grittani was there. And there was one thing that Grittani said that really struck struck to me and I actually emulated this. I copied him on this. He said that when he started trading heat for three months, he didn’t do anything. But a lot with market to close didn’t didn’t try to think that Mark Lowe’s for three months didn’t touch the keyboard didn’t you know he had an accountant? Right. And that’s and I actually kind of I did that for three months. I didn’t do anything. And then for the next three months, I only placed 200 share trades. Which, and wow, first six months, that’s how I started.
Harry 5:39
And so like with those, like now, with those 200 I think me and James, were just asked the same question. You’re about to go ahead.
Harry 5:47
yeah. Their trades. Um, was it more like long the breakout? Was it like more OTC style trades? Was it kind of? Do you remember what you were kind of doing?
Austin 5:59
Yeah, I actually started off as a shorter. I started off with a shorter, which I think like you heard, I started off as a short, and it’s because I grew up in the era of like, oh, short, short pump and dumps. And it made sense to me. And that coupled with the fact that I had just watched alerts get destroyed sites wasn’t the only one I saw a couple other. You know, I started getting a live on Twitter, I saw other pumps and stuff. And you guys got to remember for those watching, this was a different time. We’re seeing stocks with 50 million shares of volume at the time, a 10 million share all day that was hived off. And here was this awesome. How long ago was it? You got some 2015? Wow, your 10 million shares was, that was a good day. That was a good day, that was high volume that was high volume from open to close. 40 million was like really high. You only saw that once in a blue moon. And so it was it was a lot more, it was a lot simpler. Like it felt like price action. At that time, shorting was a lot clearer in the sense to where once you saw like a high of Day break, you saw an exhaustion Can you say okay, that’s where Long’s just bought got trapped you short, and they would all they fade from there. And it was just an amazing time to be a short seller. And then it got and then of course, like, like kind of everything, you know, right as you right. As things get exploited. It gets harder. And you know, we’ve seen that over and over and over again. And I didn’t know at the time, and like I had this amazing run. And then I mean, I gave it all back. I gave it all back like I gave my first year I was actually your your profitable. Profitable right away.
James 7:43
Were you profitable with those two entries?
Austin 7:46
Yeah. Well, first six months, I was profitable after my first year. And then the second year, I gave it all back.
Harry 7:53
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I guess that kind of like mental battle of like, giving it all back, like, did you ever think about quitting? Or you were just like, No, I’m gonna, I’m gonna make this work. I’m going to keep trying, I’m gonna, like, do what I can. I’m gonna, you know, that type of mindset.
Austin 8:11
At that point, I was not ready to quit. I was like, No way. Like, because I tasted it. And like, I got addicted to like, what it felt like to win. And I was there a note to be possible. And once I knew that, it could be possible. I wasn’t really to give up. Just like I didn’t have any thoughts of quitting yet. until like, got got after, after that year of losing that I did. After a year of losing, I came back, like around 2017. And 2017 was, like the roughest year for me, but also the best year, it was kind of like where I hit my bottom. 2017 I can’t work like late 2017 is works. Like I hit that desperation where I was just like, dude, like, I mean, like, I’m tasting it, like, but I’m in the depths. And like, I’ve given it all back and like, it’s already been two or three years. So like, should I just like, what’s wrong? Should I just give up? And that’s when I started to feel but you know, deep inside, I knew I wouldn’t give up. Because of course, you know, like, in the back of my mind, I was like, Well, it took Miko seven years right? It took Nico seven years and I’m sticking with it. So like in the back of, you know surface level you have those off fuck I want to give up like this sucks. I hate waking up to lose and then you get like, you get in this losing streak and you’re just around and and I’m, it’s hard to just like take that off your shoulder like it’s just it’s hard to keep especially one in the morning. It’s hard to just do it but like at no point ever did I ever think about not waking up? Yeah, like I was always I was always gonna wake up.
James 9:54
That’s amazing because again, like waking up that early like we all know the drive and like the the addiction feeling. But waking up that early and like taking a mental beating like clearly made you the trader you are now. And like while you were doing that, was it you making the mistakes? Like were you doing the things that we kind of teach against now? Or was it just lack of understanding of setups at that point?
Austin 10:17
Well, it was both. I was both like one I was an emotional wreck at the time, just because because I knew it could be possible. And I knew, and I knew that something was getting in my way. And I didn’t know that I was getting in my way. I didn’t know that it was my stubbornness, that it was my despair. It was my negativity that was keeping me from like, like, the worst part is when you’re in a red streak, the worst part is when and you know that you can be a green trader, but you’re not doing it. For some reason. The worst part is missing a trade. For me, that’s the worst thing ever is when you miss a trade, when we missed a trade, and you know, you needed that trade, and then you take your next trade. And it’s and it’s a rhetoric, this is the cycle that I fell in. And that is why like, in all of my webinars that I tried so hard, I’m just like, God, let shit go. Right. And that’s ultimately the secret that I learned is just to let shit go, yeah, like you missed a trade, it doesn’t matter, pretend that didn’t happen. tomorrow’s a new day, you know, the next trade is new. Everything from everything from one second ago is new. And that’s, and that’s like, that’s where I found my rhythm. That’s when things just started to cause I didn’t care if I lost yesterday, as long as I like, like we preach as long as I kept my risk under control, nothing that happened yesterday, matter yesterday, before. And so that that’s why I sound like a broken record, when I say that all the time in chat. And just like next.
Harry 11:49
As far as the, as far as like, so you’re, you know, you’re in kind of like 2017. And you hit kind of that rock bottom. And you’re I know what that feels like of that kind of like desperation of just and you’re almost saying to yourself, something has to change, like you like something needs to change, like you need to change your behaviour from what you were doing before. And you almost need to form a mould of like a new person. And how did you kind of go about that kind of change? How do you kind of like make yourself into the person you are now what is it that you are just finally just selling into resistance? Or was it that you were just shorting into resistance or that you weren’t chasing anymore? Like, what kind of steps did you take to build yourself into kind of the trader you are now you know?
How to Nail and Bail
Austin 12:38
Yeah, so that’s when I really embraced the one key rule that I that I said my very first day and you might see which I realised I didn’t get the damn question about how I got him. I see. But we’ll get we’ll get into that. Yeah, we’re still in 2017. But yeah, so that’s what I really figured out that golden secret third eye because at the time, I was still all shorting I, like I had never placed a long train up until then. And so that’s when I found out that like, I need to nail and bail, because, because that’s what I that’s what I had struggled with all of 20, because like 2015 was good for me. Beginning of 2016 was good. And then then it started to go down downhill from there. And then 2017 was, you know, 20, mid 2016, mid 2017 was the roughest time ever. Then late 2017, for me, is when I realised I need to just start nailing and fucking bailing, because I can win. But all of my shorts were front side shorts, and I didn’t have any I wasn’t good at adding to winners back then. So all of my trades were always on the front side of the move. And I just like it’s not that I wouldn’t win. It’s just that I would always give it back. And you know, that’s when like things were starting to just kind of go up with more vigour. That’s when more volume started to come into the market. And I just knew that I had to frontside short frontside cover, and Get the eff out and leave on the day. And that that’s when I really found a rhythm to just short cover. See, I don’t care if it was 15 minutes, I was done on the day, walking away. If I was green $300. That was perfect. That was awesome. At the time. It was a great day for me and I was leaving. I was leaving, even if I had lost $500 The next day, because then I would just do it in my mind. Well, that means I’m down 200 for both days, I lost 100 each day. That means on my next trade, I’m green. And that’s just like, all I had to do because that was what really killed me was that, you know, the losses were always bigger than my winners on the shorts. And I couldn’t fight that. I couldn’t fight that that battle of Win, win win. Give it all back on one win win. Give it all back on the fourth. You know what I’m saying? Yeah, and that’s when I really learned like dude frontside short frontside cover, in my opinion, the only way to short unless you’re going to be a swing short. If you’re going to be unless you’re going to be a swing shorter. You’re a front side too. We’re frontside covered, dude. And you have to be, yeah. Or that’s all I could find success with.
James 15:07
That is an incredible like mentality for new, even even two years in or so like, that’s a pretty good mentality to have. Like, there’s, whenever I see struggling members of them, I see like, these are the things and I hope everyone listens to this that it is so key that you would just at this point in your career, you were fed up, and you just were taking what the market gave you. You weren’t going for homeruns. And you like as of right now, but your trader path is like, very like, almost exactly what it should be. And then so at this point, you’re finding consistency, and you’re actually like letting gains add up and kept the risk in check, what kind of pushed you to the next step of like, Okay, it’s time to maybe add a little bit of size, you know, maybe, maybe push the push the wall a little bit.
The Turning Point in His Trading Career
Austin 15:49
Right. And so right around them, is where I started to, that’s exactly what I wanted, I was starting to see that consistency, and I wasn’t falling into not only wasn’t not falling into the financial pitfalls, but I wasn’t falling into the mental pitfalls, either. And so I was ready to grow. And the thing is, is that at the time, I didn’t even really have, like, I was just starting to learn about the whole, like my framework of buy sell dead market kind of thing that that I drive off of, I was just kind of getting into that. But like, that really wasn’t part of that’s a big part of what I do now. Not not at the time. But what I really started to learn was, the volume was starting to increase and I wanted to, I wanted to make more money. And I knew like just from like two years of trouble that I just could not increase the size, I did not want to increase the size. Because I knew that I just knew that if I increase the size, I was that my consistency would go. Yeah, he knew it. And so I like at the time, everything started to squeeze at around, you know, this 2017 18 Mark. And I was like, you know, there’s big money to be made on the long side. That’s when it really clicked like the if I want to make bigger money. I need to be on the long side. Yeah. Yeah, and 20 like that 2018 year, like, right around, not early, like early to mid 2018. It’s when I said, Fuck it six months, I’m gonna do exactly what I did when I started trading, except for the long side, you know, like, because the market is, I noticed that the market was conducive for and I’m going to try it along. And so for six months, I went back down to a couple 100 chairs, I was Ultra patient on it, even though I was starting to see some consistency. And like my pitfalls were gone, I was feeling good. I went all the way back down and started longing. And that’s what I did for like, for like six months, I didn’t place anything but a long trade.
Harry 18:01
And so when you were kind of playing out that I went down, almost like almost very similar journey to a tee where I was consistent shorting. But I wanted to start catching some of these moves on the long side. And I had money saved as well. So I was saying to myself, Okay, I’m willing to risk what I’m making now shorting in order for like a better gain longing. And so I mean, that’s just what I did. And we have like, so so so fucking similar journeys on this one.
Austin 18:34
You know, you in your back pocket, and that’s the confidence that traders need to have. Like they need to know like, that’s why we focus. That’s why we say get good at one thing. Yeah, the reason why that’s so important is because if you ever want to grow, you need to be able to say, well, if I need to, I can make money on this one thing. Yeah. Like, like for me, like right now. Like there was some good like I saw James, you got a great trade today on TLC, which is a simple V watch. That was a great show. And, like part of me right now is this market, of course, like this market is like wanting to shorting and shorting U DUB. Part of me saying like, dude, like, why didn’t I just make that trade? Like, I mean, I saw like, in the back in the day, that would have been like a bread and butter basic. Like, why am I not taking that trade? But here’s the thing I know, in the back of my mind, if I ever, like if I ever, like need to make money, but we want short?
Harry 19:24
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Exactly. Same, same same mentality,
Austin 19:28
You need that in the back pocket, so that you can feel competent to try something else and give it a whole hearted approach. You cannot ever grow into you have that one thing that you just know, is rock solid in the back of your Yeah, you need that as a trade ability.
James 19:49
I like that. And you know, we get a lot of questions like how do you know, because I’ve seen you short and I think you’re very, very talented short seller and it’s like What gave you that Did you have a feeling in your stomach that was like, oh, longing just feels better? It feels I like it more, I’m more comfortable or was it just that you noticed you were better at it or whatever.
Harry 20:10
I think it was just a reward for all of us. You know? Yeah. Honestly,
Austin 20:15
I didn’t really start coming into longing until after I kind of got here to MIC. I mean, right before, like, I remember. And so we can get into this net like, so like, Alex actually confronted me or not Alex Bao did. Bao was the one who actually DM me and said, Hey, like, we’re starting this chat room. Do you want to be a part of it? Because he had seen like we had? I mean, I met him that one time, too.
James 20:40
Right? Yeah, You gotta tell that story for sure.
Austin 20:44
I’ll tell that one. But yeah, um, yeah, bow and I had met in Maui one time, just to make a long story short, because I’ve we’ve already talked about this, but Bao Bao came to Maui one time. And this is when I, you know, like, I was like, I feel like, I’m the only trader on Maui where I live just because not anymore.
Austin 21:02
Now everyone’s a trader. But at the time, you know, like Bao came to Maui. And like, I had followed him on Twitter, of course, and on Snapchat, and he he tweeted, saying that he was coming to Maui or something. I was like, Dude, I mean, it’s a small island, like, I’m gonna be able to stalk him if I want to, like, Snapchat, I’m gonna be like, I know where he is. But I’m just gonna happen. It’s gonna happen at this time, and just happened to bump into him. I know, he’s gonna be at the seafood market. So. But anyway, I actually did like, he came to Maui. And I saw that he was staying, I believe that the four seasons and out and so I put my canoe on my truck. And I was like, I’m gonna go palette before season’s Beach, because I mean, you could probably be at the beach. He wasn’t there. And I just had a good paddle. And then I saw that he was out of shape ice place. And I was like, I know where that place is, like, new club. So I’m just gonna go take a drive down. And my canoe club. I just missed him. And I was like, maybe it’s not meant to be. And so later on that night, like, I was actually just gonna go to bed and I don’t drink or anything. But my friends wanted to go drink and just partying I was like, well, it was a Friday night, I think. And Friday nights in Hawaii, for anyone trading for me. Friday night is where I stay up a little bit later to kind of get on a Hawaii schedule for the weekend. And then Sunday, I go to bed early. So it’s kind of like this Friday, Sunday game that I play. Anyway, I stayed up later, to just go out with the guys and we went to the sushi restaurant. It was a sushi karaoke restaurant. And I was just having a good time. And then I saw Bao walking. And that’s history now locked in. Awesome. I told my friends and like, Dude, that’s one of the best day traders in the world. I have to leave. I’m sorry. I walked over to his table and like modern rock, and you know, he, he welcomed me down and, and then and bought like the table he had, he had a girl and a friend and he bought the table at 10 shots of Tennessee, and we had a great couple laughs.
James 23:09
I love that story. Dude I love it!
Harry 23:11
What did you ask him? Like, I mean, you have them? They’re like, what type of shit? Are you saying? Are you like, you know more as like a fan? Or are you like, how are you getting these trades? What are you seeing?
Austin 23:25
I tried not to do that. I try. I tried to just have a good time. And I tried very hard not to bring up trading. Yeah, like, like not like to be not be like a spazzed fanboy or anything. Just wanted to have a good time. But thankfully, he kept bringing up trading. I was stoked on that. He kept bringing up trading. So I was like sick. And that’s when I mean, that’s when he like, that’s when he basically told me he’s like, you gotta be covered by 1030. That’s the secret. Because these moves Christ, these moves will just rip up on you. And at the time, I was starting to figure that out too. But that was like ultimate validation. For me. That was ultimate validation. And this was right around the time. Like, this was right at around the time that I had figured out that front side short, front side cover kind of stuff, because a lot of that came from bow because I would just like reverse analyse his charts. And he would always get the top tick, but like I always knew that, like, by the time that pull happened in like, oh, he covered already. And it just not so like that’s why you can’t chase the short because he’s already covered. And so I love that. It was all just super validating for me at the time. The fact when he said that and yeah, and then that was basically that was the big thing. He just said, you know, be covered by 1030 Call it a day and and that’s when he actually has his nugget that he gave to me then was like, at the time I was with Centerpointe, too, and they were getting super pricey. And that’s when COVID trading was starting to come to and he’s like, You should try Cobra. And I was like, Oh, perfect. I tried Cobra and they were great. And I’ve been with Cobra ever since.
James 25:15
That’s awesome. That’s funny. That’s what I just every time I hear them, and I love it, because that’s such a, I’m a big believer in Destiny, and like fate and all that. And like, that is like key. That is the perfect story for it. I love to hear that. So at that point, was he that was 2018 I’m guessing right?
Austin 25:32
Yeah, that was like, I don’t even remember.
James 25:34
So now how long after that? Did Bao and Alex start? MIC? Do you remember? The year? Oh, God.
Austin 25:43
I started in 2019 when Bao asked me to join, but I think it was only six months before that.
James 25:48
Yeah, probably something like that. It’s funny. So how did that how did that happen? How did you end up with this group?
Austin 25:56
Yeah, I mean, so Bao just messaged me saying, Hey, do you want to be a part? And then Alex, Alex, give me a call a week later. And I said sure. And at the time that it was actually kind of hard, because like I was, I was still kind of coming in too long. And so I was actually pretty nervous when I first started. And so like, actually, when I first started MIC that was after I, when I first started MIC, I was kind of this mix between a short and a long because that was like, I was like you were more of a longer than I was at that time, Harry. And I was like starting too long. Like that’s when I had done my six months. And I was ready to start longing but at the same time, if I was going to be a moderate in this chatroom, I had to do it. I knew, like, you know, like, I had to kind of go back into shorting a little bit. But I went back into shorting and, and I wanted to do some long stuff to like that, like I been on this long journey. So the timing wasn’t really that great. Because like, if I’m going to be a moderator, I kind of have to do you know, preach what I know. And like, watch lists on stuff that I’m an experience with, and I wasn’t the most experienced long at the time.
Harry 27:01
Yeah, I remember we would have a lot of conversations about longing, like we talked a lot. And that I was jealous.
Austin 27:06
I was jealous. I was like, see this guy? Why am I shorting this guy is fucking longing and banking. I want to be doing but like, I’m kind of stuck. I’m kind of stuck, like in this short moderator position. And like, how do I get out of this?
Harry 27:21
Because I was just, I was like, I’m not showing any more. I would take some shorts back then though. Like if I saw really easy shorts. The thing is, is that back then if I missed a long trade, but I saw it kind of creeping up into those airlines positions, I’d be like, well, I can cure my FOMO with the short up here because I know it’s probably not going to keep running. And that’s how I would kind of cure my FOMO because I mean, back Back then I was like shit, like, I was just like, FOMO King. I was like a FOMO Titan. Like I was like, Man, I gotta get this trade. I gotta get it. I gotta order lines, outer lines, or if we were kind of like, if it did come and I did get it then you know, it’d be like down at the bottom of the range long for sure. But yeah, we did have a lot of like good kind of conversations and talks. I remember that that was really fun.
James 28:10
We weren’t even mods then. Right both of us weren’t?
Harry 28:13
I don’t think the mod for a while I was like in MIC but I wasn’t a mod for a while I didn’t even really think about ever like becoming a mod or anything like that. I believe it was like Bao one day just message in an after hours, like your hair or your mod now. And then I was like, alright, so like, I just, I never had like asked or anything like that. Or it was just like, I was just purely waking up focusing on trading every day. Like I would always talk to you guys. I would always be like, Great trades like great, whatever. I never really thought of it like that, because I was just purely just focusing on my trading really at that point. You know?
James 28:52
It’s funny, like, I think awesome. Like you don’t give yourself enough credit for that time. Because I remember like seeing your charts and like, I’d be like this dude second shorter, and then I’d see along I’m like, What the fuck? Like you can do both? Yeah, and I remember I didn’t know any, like traders that could do both at the time, really? Because I parry I didn’t even know that you were like shorting or like which one and I mean, mostly, the lawn guy is like, how the hell does this guy do it? And I think everyone had had that mentality.
Austin 29:19
It’s it’s just, you know, trading kind of fine, like, breeding will find you like, what, what you’re good at will find you and like, that’s what I felt like. It did for me, like, I really, like the view of freaking became like my bread and butter. That kind of became my iconic setup for a very long time in my career. In 2019, sorry, in 2019. And, I mean, I mean, I just noticed that in 2019 and that was a great year. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it’s going back to your earlier question James like hot like transitioning to longing or whatever. You know, that’s really the secret is it’s just going to find you. And like, for me longing, I’m innately. I’m innately a guy who I’m not the I’m not a risk seeking gentleman. I love, like, the idea of risk to reward for me, is much more enticing than high probability. And that’s the long side, the long side is all about. I mean, we all we’ve, I mean, you look at the biggest moves on charts, they’re all green, the biggest moves you’ll ever see on an intraday chart, or, I mean, on average, right on an intraday chart on a daily chart, the biggest candle, the strongest candle is gonna be a green one, you’re gonna see some nasty stuffs, too, but nasty red candles and nasty death candles, but they’re gonna be I mean, when you compare the worst death candle possible to the, to the to the best life candle possible that life candles three times the size? Yeah, yeah, you know, and to me that just that found me like, I’m, I’m such innately I’m gonna take a cut, I’m gonna take a cut, I’m gonna take a cut. And, and that combined with that mentality of next, and I don’t care, and I can leave this lost behind me, I can leave these two losses behind me and stay mentally sane, to get that winner or to to nail that one that I know is coming or kind of like that matches with me to take that cut and to stay sane, like that, that fits with me. Well, what doesn’t fit with me is the win, win, win and give it all back next week that I can’t do.
Taking a Paper Cut on a Trade
Harry 31:43
Yeah, I also love that kind of mentality as well. Because that really kind of fits in like kind of your approach to longing, like I guess for me, because like I say, a lot like my best trades work right away. And like, so if I buy at support at five bucks, and automatically, we’re at 530 540. Like, that’s a good trade for me. But if I buy support at five bucks, and we’re like, 505 503 501 lingering around, that’s a trade, I’m just going to take off and say, Okay, we’re 95 done five cent loss 100%, I’m willing to take that little paper cut that little loss, because I know that, you know, my winners are always going to be so much bigger than my losers and all know, when I’m winning right away, because like, I always say to myself, like, you know, if someone wants to stock at 540, it’d be at 540 By now, you know, like, and and that’s exactly what I’m saying to myself every single day, you know?
Austin 32:39
Yeah, that’s, that’s I mean, if there’s any Long’s out here, shorts will know this as a bad experience. Where, like, they short, a low and then boom, it rips on you. Every store in the world knows is when they short and can well imagine that as a long side. That’s your validation. And that’s why you’ll see on a lot of my charts, I’ll put an order right there at support. And if I’m right, right away, I’ll add to this sucker. Yeah, I literally like you’ll see me have green candles all the way up a green candle, just like yep, adding as like, as it’s working right away, that proves to me that support is right there. And like, I know that my risk reward in that spot is it’s killer. And that and that really like that’s my goal. That’s my whole view on trading is it’s all for me, it’s all risk for reward. And I’ll take a cut. It’s a risk reward. And I’ll take the cut.
Harry 33:35
Yeah, I was I was trading a stock the other day. And we had this like, key 560 level. And we had kind of support at 550. And we kind of broke a bit over the 560 level, it was key kind of a breakout level. And we stuffed and we went to 550. And that was also key support level. And I said to myself, like okay, like if we don’t really break, like 550 here, like, Is this really a stuff move? I don’t know. Because like it’s only 10 cents. It looks like a stuff move acts like a stuff move. But is it really a stuff move if we don’t break this key support. And so we couldn’t break, it couldn’t break it couldn’t break it. So I just took some of my 50 because I was like, You know what, I might as well and that is a great spot, I have great risk reward. This should have stuffed if this was a real stuff. It went away it went way lower word would have worked right away for them, we would have known that it was dead. So I took some right there automatically we rip back up over the key level. And I was just selling into the strength. And I think that has been a key part of my trading is just stuff like that little stuff watching price like that understanding those little key tidbits of how kind of the market works. That has helped me tenfold.
Austin 34:50
And it’s and it’s all it’s all patience, right? You have to you have to wait for your opera and this and this is a secret for all trading right? So you just have to have patience when there’s no No trades, like, like, I thought about like this today, I woke up today. And I’m just like, yeah, like I’m more waking up just to see if anything happens rather than waking up to trade, like, and that’s kind of like been my approach, especially in this kind of a crappy or market that we’ve got, I’m just waking up just to just to see what happens to like, if there’s a good opportunity, I may partake, you know, it’s not. And that’s and that’s what I think a lot of new traders kind of have to find is that, that they really don’t have to trade. Like they need to trade only when they see something like, and they don’t have to see something every day like when you wake up, there’s this expectation where you deserve. Like, you know, trading is not that job trading is not the job or where you’re going to get a paycheck every day. You’re not entitled to a paycheck every day. I mean, if you want to be entitled to a paycheck every day, then you need to get a job. Right? That’s not trading. Trading is you have to, you have to be so patient. Like if there’s nothing today, there’s nothing today. And you have to kind of have that. When I talk about that, I don’t care mentality. I don’t care if I trade today. Yeah, you know, I don’t care if I miss this trade, there’ll be another one. And it’s that patience that really, that you need to have, like intraday on the intraday level? And what if you don’t want if you’re not profitable in two years, I’d be willing to stay for four or six, right? Like, what how long are you willing to give it? It’s all patience, right?
Advice for Short and Long Traders
Harry 36:35
Yeah, no, I really liked that. And also, today was the day where we both woke up, like I find a lot of the time in chat, like, I’ll say something and then you’ll say I agree, or you’ll say something. And then I’ll say I agree, because like we do have a very similar mindset and approach, I really believe to like trading and just kind of how we like, do things like that. And like today was a day where I was like, There’s nothing I like right now. There’s nothing I see. That’s amazing right now. I mean, we had all stocks that were broken, all stocks that were under View, I mean, there were some opportunities where you could catch a support level, like a little bit on like a smaller kind of level. But it wasn’t a day, that was amazing. It wasn’t a day where you had to go out guns blazing. It wasn’t a day to size up. And I mean, for me, it’s just knowing those days that are under View, app and bad. And the days that I don’t like that can really like I think that can really make a change in your your just your profitability and consistency. Like if you can consistently nail days where you should be sized up and consistently nail days where you can be sized down. I mean, you’ve really done a lot of the battle. And you’ve really, you know, I think helped yourself out a lot if you can just nail those kinds of types of days.
Austin 37:51
Yeah, but the secret there is not to be so in the toilet in your brain from last week, if it didn’t happen, and you tried to force it. Because now you’re not getting it this week. I promise. No matter how good today is you’re not going to be able to capitalise Yeah, because you’re you’re you’re mentally
Harry 38:12
Yeah. No, I yeah, I love that. I think like maybe just to kind of close it down and kind of ended on the podcast. What’s one advice you would give for short traders and one advice that you would kind of give for for long traders? I think that’s a good way to kind of end it, don’t you James?
James 38:30
Yeah. So I could listen to you guys talk all day. It’s private. So I’d love to hear this. But yeah, go ahead.
Austin 38:35
Yeah, so for a short trader. Your, your mindset needs to be like that, that one baseball player that balance quote, all the time is it Ichiro, or the dude that has a super, super consistent batting average, you like you need to really just as a short seller, you need to go for a repetitive hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, right. If you’re looking for consistency. It’s all about the basic, basic, basic, basic, basic. And then don’t worry about adding to winners until after you’ve built up that you know, that back pocket that I’m talking about. Once you build up that back pocket. Don’t try to grow on the short side until you have that that stability in your back pocket. And the way you grow after that is is the the only way that you can grow is to add to your winner. Right and then don’t don’t think about don’t think about jumping sighs it’s a slow increase of size and a slow adaptation of adding to winners. That’s going to increase your bankroll on the short side, you know slow increase of size and slow adaptation of adding to winners. For the long trader I’ve, other than what I’ve already said, I really think Harry, you’ve already said the best advice is that as a long trader, I think risk reward is your best friend. And as Harry said, the the support levels that are going to work are going to work right away, the demand is going to come in the market is not going to give a whole lot of opportunity to get long at the best spot. So that’s why you have to have patience for the best spot do not get in early, it’s better to miss than, then than to get into early for a long, because the reward side on Long’s is so big, you don’t have to be first rush shorts. A lot of the times, depending on your patient’s level, your reward side is going to be capped at the bottom of the range unless you’re going for a fader, which until you have that comfortability in your back pocket. Don’t be going for that. Yeah. And so those are I guess the two bits of advice that I would give is shorts, you really need to base it basic base it and then slowly add to winners add to size. And Long’s don’t get exhausted, be patient. For the best price and the best price will show itself to you without you having to guess.
Taking Singles When Things Aren’t Working
Harry 41:21
Yeah, 100% Yeah, I love that. So love
James 41:24
that so much. Yeah, that was perfect. Yeah,
Harry 41:28
Your trades are gonna are going to work right away. And, you know, that’s just that for longing, like you just need to be okay with that. And I think for long as well, you need to be okay, taking singles when shit is not working, you know.
Austin 41:42
And that’s my biggest weakness right now. That’s my biggest.
Harry 41:46
It’s not, it’s not easy, because you know that the problem is, is that if you try to right now, in this market, you know that the short end View app is going to be more profitable than taking the support line underneath V whap. And selling at V whap. Right. And so you either need to say, Okay, I’m a long trader, or maybe you short for a while and take those types of setups till they stop working. Because right now, like, for me, I’m okay with like taking my consistent hits of 1020 30 cents, maybe I get a nice 4050 cent rep. But I’m okay with taking that because I know what can come next. And I understand the reward that can come by just taking those singles over and over and over again. And I guess that’s what I try and do each and every single day is just take those consistent singles until we get into a market where we start running. And then it’s like, wow, Harry’s making $1 $2 $3 a share and everyone’s mind blown. It’s like bro, where were you when I was making 1020 and 30 cents? I’m not getting those types of DMS. Oh, yeah, you know,
Austin 42:46
And again, just patience all comes down to you know, patients through the hard times, so that you can have a clearer head in the good times.
Harry 42:53
100% 100% Well, I think we can wrap it up here.
James 42:57
I love it. Yeah, that’s a great idea.