Welcome to the after hours podcast posted by Harry Hoss and James Freedlender presented by my Investing Club.
What’s going on guys, we’re back with another episode of the after hours Podcast. Today we have Byron, who has been a long, everybody keeps asking us to bring them on. So I’m finally we’re really excited to get you on here. And you can tell your story. So thank you for coming on, man.
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure.
Of course, man. Of course, it’s, it’s our pleasure to so lately, you’ve been killing it. You guys don’t know. We have like a main chat where people post their trades, their charts, all that. And Byron posts his trades like daily and he is killing it. And he’s very insightful into, like, market moves and stuff like that. And I always look forward to his post. So, you know, if you want to give us a little insight, you know, how did you even get into trading? How did you get how did this whole thing start? And kind of take it from there?
Absolutely. So thanks again, for having me on. It’s quite fun. To be part of them. I see family and just learn from you guys and all that. But my journey, my journey, trading wise started about late 2018, or probably mid 2018. I will say, with me, for those who didn’t see when I was brought on as a junior moderator. Like, I’m starting a lot later in the game than a lot of you guys. Like I’ve got a wife got four kids. And back at that time, so mid 2018. Like, we were just starting to explore what are different options, ways we can bring more income into the family. And so, you know, I looked at eventually crossed some day trading videos on YouTube. And of course, I connected with Tim Sykes. He’s, yeah. He’s the gateway. And actually, like, it’s crazy, because I bought his DVD where he goes through like the different patterns of a basic runner. Right? And yep, so that’s some basic foundation stuff from him. And I originally opened like $1,000 account. And I know that I knew he had said something about holding overnight and waiting for a gap up in the morning. I had no idea what I was doing. But like on like that first weekend, I just randomly held a stock overnight, and was just sitting there in the pre market like not knowing what am I supposed to do and it started spiking probably around like 7am when I sold a quick for like 800 Buck profit. And that was the that was the official right there.
How He Blew up His Trading Account
It was like almost doubled it. And I’m like, okay, yeah, this is this is it, this is gonna be easy. Um, so yeah, I started trading and you know, had mixed results initially. But actually, I’m one of those guys who did things the wrong way. Coming in initially, like, because I had some mixed results and was confident I was like, if I can just load up this account a little bit more, I’ll have bigger numbers and able to push myself forward. And so I actually loaded up some credit cards. Got some debt they owe me and, and really blew up that account. In epic fashion. I don’t know if y’all. I don’t know if y’all remember the BPTH.
It was the best storage space in history. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, that was the day where I was completely humbled. For those who don’t, you can look back at a chart back on like March 2019.
went from like six to what six to 60? And like, yeah?
Yeah, like few days, it it had recently failed, I forget what the level was, but it failed somewhere around like 1520 bucks, whatever, like three days prior. So I was shorting into that and just holding and gapped up the next day and ran to 70 so blew up that account and actually took a year off of trading of just like, you know, handling that debt does play stepping away but still like I had so fall in love with it by that point that I was still like for a year without without trading was still studying charts like every day trying to learn what I could and did didn’t jump back in until now.
Were you emotionally like Were you okay? Like because I know a lot of people like you blow an account or especially when you like take out money to fund like were you like emotionally like, trying to like fuck for a while or were you?
Yeah, I mean, like it was it was tough because I mean, I had to I had to completely come like my my tail between my legs. I gotta tell my wife like I hadn’t. I hadn’t told her this is also a husband thing poor husbands in one on one If I didn’t know the extent of which I had, I had loaded up this account. Yes. So when that happened, I was like, I gotta like, lay everything out there and just let her know like, I completely screwed this up.
What was her response?
Silence at first, I think that’s that’s generally how my wife like broods. She will. She’ll sort of take it all in. But yeah, she was not the blow uptight, but it was just like, I mean, there was that trust that was eroded there, you know, for a while and, and it’s tough.
It’s tough. It’s tough when you have a passion for for like markets and you have a passion for stuff like that, like anything that’s kind of risk risky. And, you know, it’s like, I think we all have girlfriends or wives or most people in MIC, and it’s, you know, trying to explain to them how it works sometimes, and you know, especially could blow up so they probably think you’re nuts. But, you know, it’s hard. It’s hard. Now, how did you explain that to her? How did you if you don’t mind, you know, how did you kind of get over that that fear of talking about it even.
When it was just like it was it was obvious, it was immediately obvious because it was like in a single day. My Account was probably I was using I was using the offshore I was using sure trader at the time.
Taking a Year off and Coming Back
And this wasn’t exactly it wasn’t quite at like PDT Yeah, I was hovering around PDT and was sort of counting on that money to be able to generate profit to pay off the debt. Well, once I once I blew up the account, I mean, it was just like, immediately obvious, like, there’s no way I’m gonna be able to just, I mean, this is paid off. And I was like, where all of our actual funds from working and stuff were coming, we’re gonna go into that. And so it was just like, immediately obvious, Okay, gotta come to me and gotta let her know exactly the extent of what’s happened and just deal with as it came, and it was amazing. And so we got through.
Kudos to her. props to her.. Amazing. So, so at this point, you take a year off, you kind of work to the debts, get everything going the hot, what kind of brought you back.
Again, like I had never, I’ve never lost the passion for training. Like, it’s for those for any all of us know, just once you catch that bug, and I mean, just what can what it can afford you and those that also just love the challenge of trading, like I love the challenge, I’m trying to execute better and better students are playing sticking to a process and challenging myself. So never lost that bug. And, you know, just spent all that time studying patterns and sort of back testing strategies and just believe that I had some some solid trading plans in place. And then it was just a matter of I had just raised some money on the side that wasn’t part of like our budgeted money to jump back in to the market, I think it was roughly a couple 1000. In this was late 2020. So for March 2019, to like late summer 2020, is how long I was I was off and then was able to find some some pretty good excess success, late 2020. And then 2021 just kept building from there as my like, first year, like real, like serious profitability, and just growing and scaling my account. And then that just brought a whole new set of challenges, which was yeah, I grew so rapidly in 2021, that oversizing was a problem. Like impulse control, like recognising that. And that’s still the biggest thing I think I struggle with.
People think you become profitable. And then they think it’s easy.
Rare, because even when, when I recognise a good setup, what I’m often tempted to do is to, like just I don’t, I have to make sure that my scaling strategy is tight. Because if I get in too much too early, then I’m uncomfortable, and I can’t really let the stock fully do what it wants to do before it starts to move in my direction. So that was like one of the challenges started to need to deal with. Yeah, but
how did that go with kind of like, education wise, like, Were you in MIC at like any point then like, kind of like, when did you join Where do you get anywhere else? Like, I mean, you can talk about like, really anything on here?
Yeah. So I did a lot of YouTubing and was sort of spinning my wheels. They’re really the biggest thing was just stuck like tracking my own like setups that bother observe and just Yeah, again, again day after day, just studying charts like I’ve logged so many hours of studying charts and becoming familiar with patterns. And I came across I think I came across like Alison bow a while ago like I saw his video when he went up to SMB was just detailing some of his early journey there. But I joined MSC last fall, I think. And some of the biggest lessons that are have really shaped my trading today have come since then. Yeah, you know, sizing properly fantasy orders is the biggest thing that’s helped me waiting for certain lines. And that’s really helped me Yeah. So I think what MIC has helped me in is alleviating some of those super high balances in my p&l and also Yeah, you know, like I’m much more gradual incline and have the patience to wait for, you know, we say scalping scale, Scott, the wrist.
setups, and um…
What He’s Working On Now
I think that’s awesome. I feel like a lot of people like, like, I like to talk about MIC especially because a lot of profitable traders will hit me up on like Instagram or Twitter and be like, Yo, like, you know, like, I do make money but like, I want to learn more like economic MIC helped me and I always kind of like, lately, I’ve been using the referral of like, because I’m a golfer. So I’ll use like, oh, like I’m a decent golfer, you know, when I go out there and I play well, but sometimes I don’t want to get those lessons and like talking about like the pros that work at you know, shops and all that stuff, they can make you 10 times a better chair you are and could be your golfer you are and it’s just such a little tip and stuff like that. And, you know, I like that you were talking about how sighs like, this is the problem I deal with, I think most of my DMs as a short bias guys that most people size too big. They’re not letting the stock kind of do like have wiggle room and work. And, you know, I think I think seeing someone like you who is successful and in does make some good money do that people need to take that into consideration in their own trading. And I think it’ll make a massive difference.
Yeah, for sure. For sure struggles on the metal. There’s such a makes such a big difference between even just not being consistently profitable at all to being able to like really start to consistently grow your account like those small, small details. Yeah, the small that’s yeah.
What would you say that you’re kind of like working on now? Like, what what would you say? Like kind of like, as far as like, struggle wise? Like what would you say you’re kind of working on now?
Um, well, that’s, that’s definitely one. So the whole, like, really, truly trusting my fantasy orders? Yeah. Just jumping into stocks because I can’t because I have like, the cushion to when they’re all down. I think cutting those long cutting like cutting stocks when they go against me and like jumping back in like being comfortable jumping back in. Something that I’m trying to consistently do now. Like whether rather than just allowing a bit of the draw down, I’m much becoming more comfortable. Just go ahead and just cutting it as soon as it like, hits my breakeven. Yeah, or slightly beyond my breakeven and it immediately stuffs just like jumping back in. Yeah. That’s been like really helpful for just, I guess my psychology of just like being comfortable in a trade and being right, if you got to take paper cuts along the way.
Yeah. But but you control over I like is that you control it? You know, I see your charts do like, you control your loss, you’re not like, you’re just like scaling to infinity. You’re not just like, shorting for no reason or longer for no reason. You have a plan. And you know, you take those cuts, but like if you take a planned cut, you can make that money back, no problem. It’s when you take an unplanned cut, like an unplanned, bigger law, it’s always bigger whenever whenever it’s on plan, it’s always a bigger loss than you expect. And then your your trigger shot. And you will you won’t be able to do it when the time comes. So I mean, how long have you been at this again? How many years would would this year be?
So like, if you like subtract the year off? This is probably what my my fourth year of training. Yeah. Everything. Yeah.
But everybody wants to make it and like one year ago, everybody wants to talk about they’re like, oh, one year one year, but like you’re on your four and with a year off of studying too. So really almost five. Yeah. That’s what it takes. Sometimes it’s that much screen time to be able to recognise those things. You know, that’s it, man. I think that’s a huge part of your success too.
Yeah, and if there’s anything like I could reiterate to people is like, don’t try to rush the process. Because as I was mentioning, like in 2021, when I started to like, scale and like really grow up account and build consistency that also came with that also came those. Like yeah, when you’re talking about just add add adding just because you have like the account size to do so like, I was telling my my tabs, I’m in a tab with Stefan and Vic. My worst loss of last year was the six finger loss. Like and just predict, like, ridiculously beyond what anything I had lost before it was on that day when was neuro. Neuro was one of the super supernovas last on or it was in EGG, whatever one of those low float ones that just ran like crazy. Yeah, and you feel like it’s going to stall out a little bit beyond like your, your stop loss. And you say, well, let it go a little bit, let it go a little bit, and then it runs like $40. And by that time, you’re so emotionally invested, like you’re just like, can’t you go to a point where you literally just like feel like you can’t cut it like you’re not emotionally strong enough? Because let it bloom to this thing that you’re way uncomfortable with.
So are you Are you talking with Vic? THE MODERATOR or Junior mud? Junior mod? Okay, so I like that, because you guys all have a similar story. That’s what I was asking. You guys have all gone through kind of like the blow up phase. You’ve had your initial struggles and like, it’s kind of cool that you guys are helping each other now. And all three of you guys are trading really well. You know, you guys are all posting charts all the time. Stephens a beast, he’s been a beast for a while. Vic obviously posts like huge p&l and YouTube. So I think that’s cool. Like, kudos to you guys for sticking with it one and two now kind of being each other support system.
The Value of Having a Trading Group
Yeah, yeah, I like that a lot. Would you say that like, like, definitely having a tab like cost you a lot more like a lot of guys like they want to like just go it alone. I don’t understand why. Like, I think for me, like, I also have kind of like a long bias like kind of group that I talk to, often as well with, like a lot of guys who are like kind of growing up and like learning. And, you know, I think that as far as like it goes for me, it’s also kind of helped me a lot as well, because for a while, like, I would talk to like James and Tom all the time in the morning and stuff like that. But like as far as like actual training goes like James and Tom and I don’t really have the same struggles, you know, like James is shorting and trading different setups, and we can talk about it, like they’ll say, Oh, Harry, you did a good job, or Oh, Harry, like it stopped or like good, good this or they’ll give me tips too. But like, we’re not really trading the same setup. So it gets a lot kind of like harder, because like, like James can’t relate to getting like stopped out at the at the low. Just like I can’t relate to getting stopped out at the highest highs or something like that. Right? Yeah, I think that that’s helped me as well just kind of like, you know, talk it out, kind of get on some calls with, like Joe Angelo’s in there. He’s a junior mod. There’s a there’s a couple other guys in there. And you know, they’re they’re growing, they’re kind of on the come up, but like, it’s nice to kind of like talk to people who are like seeing the same things as me. I think that that’s helped me a lot as well. So like Did did you start to kind of like progress even further, once we got the tab group? Or like how did that kind of work?
I would say that like, even just like beyond just the tab group just being like actively monitoring the main chat in general, has has helped a lot just like seeing not only like Vic and Stephens like you start to get a feel for how people trade when you see their charts and you’re able to chat with them. But then obviously, like bow posting all day long. And when you guys post and what I’m trying to learn some short strategy, trying to learn some long strategy, just like the fact that there’s this community here where you’re constantly sharpening one another Yes, even just by participating if you’re an active participant and you’re trying to keep up with what everyone is posting, and not only like alerting when new stocks, you know, come on board, but just you see how people actually trading just being an MIC since I joined has has caused that process to happen for me.
Dropping Your Ego to Write
I think I think it’s a lot like dropping your ego to write because it’s like, I feel like most traders have such an ego and like they don’t want to they don’t want to hear someone else talking to them or trying to teach them or and it’s like a weird thing, but you know, you seem like a really like just like normal humble dude. So that probably helps you because it’s helped like me So Harry just being in chat being with people talking to people. And it’s a huge, you know, so and I have a question for you, because something I noticed about you is you do a really good like analysis, like, whenever you write about something, you’re like, Oh, I feel like this might be a top or, or you always just you have good insight into a lot of stocks moving. So I was curious if that just came from charting over time? Do you have any other kind of people that have helped you out? Or, you know, how did you kind of come to have that? I won’t say intuition, but but you really do have a lot of good calls and stuff. So I was curious. Yeah.
Charting and Volume Patterns for Traders
I would definitely say the main thing is just charting. Like seeing not only chart patterns, but like volume patterns. Like, it’s not just the candlesticks, but like, how does volume change? When a stock is breaking through high of a day? Is the volume ramping up? Or is it basically like dead to where there’s no interest here? So it’s a safer, safer bet to try to short this top or something like that? See, so just mainly, just, and I’ll definitely say that volume has been the most helpful indicator for me, like, learn and study and have a feel for what’s happening beneath your chart. Throughout the day, as the stock is moving. Really nice. Like for me, I would say.
Yeah, do you find like, as far as like, volume goes, like, it’s a lot of like, kind of like, like, like, almost like inverse analysis. Whereas like, if the stock is like, has no volume, and like, doesn’t break down through a level or like, has no volume, and we’re just kind of consolidating, and then we get like a burst of volume, you’re kind of like looking for something like that, you know, rather than like, we’re doing like, like, would you say like, it’s more so inverse, like, you’d say that, like, if we’re if we’re not doing a lot of volume, we should be going lower. So like, that’s obviously something that you’d want to be paying attention to. It’s the same thing, like if we kind of like break through, like, let’s say high of day, and then volume drops off, like that’s something abnormal, you know, we should be getting more volume, and we should be moving higher, to kind of pay attention to stuff like that, or kind of like having to use it.
Yeah, like I would say, like, for example, if I’m trying too long, and I see like, there’s there’s high volume in the morning, stock pushes up, starts to consolidate volume starts to taper off. Yeah, that’s one of the first things I’m looking for is when does that does it another burst and volume sometime late morning, early afternoon, come back into the stock to? If it does, and that shows me that, okay, they’re still interested in this stock, there’s still people monitoring the stock, they’re looking to push it higher. And depending on how it pulls back, then I’m looking to see, does it pull back and still hold above lows? Like does it make higher lows? And does it do so with the volume decreasing back down? Yeah, so showing me that there’s really not a lot of selling pressure here, there’s not a lot of shorts that are beating this stock back down. So it still has a chance to potentially ramp back up later in the day, and even afternoon or something like that. And so I’ll start to look to set some fantasy orders and some of those lower pivots, risking the low of the day, you know, stuff like that. Like, yeah, that’s just an example. I’m looking to see how is the volume changing? Throughout the day? Yeah.
I do something definitely, definitely similar to that, like where I’m just like, It’s hard with volume, because like, there’s so many different details. Like even when I was trying to explain it, I was like, how do I make this like, the most simple way possible? But like there is a there’s a lot of different volumes, there’s hundreds, actually, probably even 1000s of like different volume, like analysis examples where, you know, we could sit here all day and just go over Oh, yeah, that’s a good one, or Oh, yeah, that’s a good one. You know, I think that’s where the screentime comes in. Like, I think a lot of people get confused. As far as like reading the tape goes, a lot of it is just like being able to interpret volume, you know, where everyone’s like looking for this, like secret signal. But really, reading the tape is just being able to interpret volume and just coming up with your own analysis, where it’s like, I can’t explain to James or I can’t explain to Byron, you know, certain types of like analysis, because you see it and you’re like, it’s that right there. But it’s very difficult for people who haven’t spent screen time or haven’t spent a lot of time, you know, doing it where I’m like, Yeah, did you did you kind of like see that odd burst right there? Or did you see how that moves that way there or whatever, you know, it’s really just being able to interpret volume well, and using that to make money, you know, and that’s why it’s so hard to explain to people who don’t have like screentime or they’re newer, because they’re like, I had a guy asked me a question this morning. Like, he’s like, How come you said it wasn’t a good long overview app. And I was like, Well, we were doing a lot of buying. We should have moved higher earlier on. And it just was struggling and struggling and struggling to move higher, but it’s like how do you interpret that in like five words. You know, it’s very, very difficult.
How Do You Break up Your Studying Time?
Yeah, yeah, it’s hard. But as I say, it’s not just the candles like this. Within the candles. There’s like a story happening within Yeah, exactly. Candles are exactly the same. Like the different story took place in that in that window. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I want over one last question for you, Byron extra stuff. I have one more question for you, actually. So as someone who obviously has done a lot of charting, and a lot of studying, and like back testing and all that, and you said, you have kids, do you have family? How did you? How do you kind of break it up? How did you study these charts? How did you dive deeper into them? And like, do that with kids and all that stuff? Because I know a lot of members say that they’re like, oh, you know, I don’t have time to do this, that but it’s so obvious that that’s what’s necessary to be successful in this is in screen time, and like getting more and more screen time. So how did you do it? Like for you? How did you how did you make it possible? And you know, how did you break apart your studying, I would say,
Um, well, first, I would just say like, if you want it bad enough, if there’s something that you love enough that you’re interested enough, like, you’ll find time to do it. And so for me, like I work full time, from home, thankfully, so I’m able to be in front of screens and stuff. But as a software engineer, like, with me, what that often means is that I can use I’ll wake up probably most weekdays, I’ll wake up like four or five in the morning, just to be able to try to get some work done for work in order to like, have more of my time in the afternoon to be able to sit and trade. And I mean, in the morning and during the early afternoon to sit and trade stuff. So just sacrificing some sleep, sacrificing some other leisure time when my kids aren’t, like awake and stuff basically is, is the time when I can do it. I mean, after hours, you know, that’s when I got put my full time dad hat on and got to be with the kids and dinner and schoolwork. And you know, all that stuff. So yeah.
If you want it bad enough, right, you’re gonna make it
Bad enough. And just constant exposure to I would say just even if you only have like, maybe an hour two or three a day to allocate towards it, just like constantly being in front of the market, constantly trying to just familiarise yourself with how the stocks move the different variables you need to account for how, like why if you’re expecting a certain stock to react a certain way, and it doesn’t like starting to really try to understand all the contributing factors of like, why why did the stock not behave the way I thought, Okay, let me take a note of that we found that way. And all that stuff. So I love finding the time, if you want to do it, you’ll find the time to do it.
The Shift From P&L to a Chart Based Process
Yeah, I think that’s, that’s really important where like, for me, like when I was starting to get like, I’d say like, quote unquote, good, like, I wasn’t like I am now. But like, I was starting to find some success when I was kind of in university. And for me, time management was like a really big thing, being able to like manage my time and say to myself, like, okay, you know, this time is for, you know, studying charts, and I’m gonna stick to that. And I also think that like, would you say that your process went from like a, I’d say like a p&l based oriented process to like a process process where you’re like, you start to go from like, caring about making money, and you know, big p&l and like maxing out like the credit cards to have that massive p&l. Would you say you kind of went from there to like more of a chart based process after that kind of year of studying charts?
Yeah, I mean, definitely, I mean, I’ve just, I’ve just, I’ve had, I’ve had that mindset, so long of just wanting to, you know, grow as quickly as you can. So you’re trying to like jam up your p&l trying to jam up your size, and I’ve been scarred so many times from that, like, I’m definitely I guess the type that needs to put their hand on the stove. And I’ve burned my hand on the stove so many times that you do dismissively get sick of trying to chase profit and us. It says it’s like a relief, if you can just consistently even if everything isn’t like huge numbers just consistently grow in the right direction. Yeah, and so because my goal has sort of shifted to that where I just want to be consistently trending towards my ultimate goals. Like where I want, you know, what I want for my family, what I want to do personally do with my wife, like, just as long as I’m growing towards those goals, and then the speed at which I get better, doesn’t really matter. And so that’s what that’s shifting focus is what’s helped me to say okay, then I really need to hone in on what are those little things that I keep doing that There are the reasons why I take three steps up two steps back three steps up, four steps back five steps that, like, I can just take one step or two steps forward, and then even just plateau and then eventually move forward. Like, that’s process. That’s where process really comes in. Like just minimising the things that you’re doing that are killing yourself.
Like, that’s where like, keeping a keeping a journal is, like really important. You know, like, a lot of people. Like, for example, like, I know, some log traders that messaged me, and it’s like the same mistakes every single day, the most common mistake I see from like logging is like people trying to long broken charts with no volume, where it’s just like failing, and they try catch the bottom year track, it’s bottom, you’re trying to get to the bottom here. And if those traders had kept like a report card, every single time they traded, it’s like, if you you know, like, just like you, you know, like you find those little mistakes by keeping a journal keeping a report card, you know, talking to other people, because you’re like, Man, I made this mistake again, today, you know, I need to work on this, at least you’re verbalising it and explaining what the tab and finally it slowly grows. And you can kind of make those building blocks to like, grow and grow and grow. And a lot of traders, they come into the market, especially newer ones, and you know, they take a loss, and then they just shut down and leave. But it’s like if you go one step further, where you take a loss, you you explain the setup, you explain your idea, and you kind of write a little bit about it. And then you kind of say like, Okay, this is what happened today. This is what I need to work on. And then you shut down and then you do whatever, just that little bit of extra work probably can like save you a year of just doing the same shit over and over and over again.
Yeah, yeah. Because what you’re really doing is like you’re you’re multiplying the amount of times that you’re seeing certain patterns, like you saw, you saw the chart while you were trading it, and then going back over, you’re seeing it again. So it’s like you’re doubling the amount of hours that turn to just try to log hours and try to log experience, whatever the more that you go back you’re really like multiplying your experience. And just like paying more attention to those little things that you like I said, like those little things that you’re doing that they make all the difference in the world and yet we the mistakes that we make repeatedly. Until finally just like stubborn enough to say okay, I have to change this.
Yeah. I like that. James, you want to say anything?
No no, no. I know you guys are current. I think that’s probably a good place to kind of wrap it. I mean, he had ended on a good note there. Oh, that’s great. Yeah, no, I think that was solid. I was just listening. Honestly, I found myself just listening to you guys talking. Hell yeah, man. I like it.
Yeah, so thanks, Byron for coming on.
Yes, thank you. Especially thanks, James. I know we were gonna do this in the evening but freed up because your back went out or something like that so.
Well. I like woke up with like a either a slipped disc or some shit. I don’t know what the fuck happened but I’m in some pain today. So it worked out good for what they’re good for all of us. Perfect.