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James 0:01
All right, everybody, welcome back. This is episode two of the after hours podcast, we have a very special guest we’ve been trying to get this man on the line for like weeks now. And we’re super excited to have him so thank you Bao for coming on

Bao 0:16
while he’s sober

James 0:22
I mean, it’s insane how all of us have talked for I mean, I’ve been in MIC for two years here Harry you too right? Yeah, yeah, it’s been two years I’ve never I mean I talked to Bao all the time I talked to Harry all the time but just until recently just started actually seeing each other talking to each other for video. Yeah, it’s hilarious I love it yeah

Bao 0:39
I didn’t know you were white dude

Bao 0:47
People are like there’s really no anything you know that’s it’s like you can be green purple and it’s like the weird thing is like people talk to me a lot of time to like what I used to work until they hear me talk on the phone right and my boys have been can match like an Asian name so they found the guy in the who was his BAO guy. And you gotta go I didn’t know your fucking asian beside my name.

James 1:26
I don’t know I think if you hear me talk and you fucking see what I write and stuff you know a fucking small white dude from Boston.

Harry 1:35
James dead giveaway.

Bao 1:37
I heard hillbilly do to it like you have a Canadian accent like a really deep one. Yeah. Yeah,

Harry 1:50
No like you have to take it in school but like you learn it for like a year and then you just never speak French again because no one speaks French I love really so. Okay. Yeah, cuz

Bao 2:02
French Canadian. Yeah. Keep going. James.

James 2:05
Have you ever seen Dexter the show? Yeah. Harry looks like the last season of Dexter when he’s like on the run. Like he is like I love it.

Harry 2:20
Your name Harry. actually wearing my MIC

James 2:29
I got my good luck shirt for trading.

Bao 2:33
Cheers, guys. Good seeing you guys. Yeah, workout shirt. So Harry, I think you should not drink because I remember when you went on.

Harry 2:41
Oh, yeah. No. chugging water at the moment.

Bao 2:48
Do you have a problem

Bao 2:54
Maybe we need a band Harry from MIC for a little bit. We’ll have to reach out.

James 3:01
Harry would FaceTime or text me at like 4am and I’m like, Dude, we got to stop. We’re gonna we got to trade like three hours.

Harry 3:08
Oh my god. I was in university. And like, I remember being an MIC and like, it was like a Friday. And like, everyone’s like, Oh, yeah, nail and bail Friday. And I remember that. I just had too much to queue up the night before. And I remember like, it was a big low flow runner things moving. And I’m trading I’m like, oh shit, I gotta puke. Like, you know, when your shoes, two tapes and it’s like one screen and you’re like, oh my god, no. And so I go to You, I come back. And it’s like, you know, kind of starting to grind up. I like go long on it go up again. It’s like starting to squeeze. I just took it off and went to bed.

Bao 3:51
Yeah, that sounds like me. Do you make money?

Harry 3:57
It’s not it shouldn’t be a repeatable process. But like, you know.

James 4:03
Tequila is one of those alcohols that there’s a fine line between like, you can have just enough to and have a good night and you take one step over and you’re drunk for three days. It’ll ruin your life.

Bao 4:14
That’s like trading Dude you know how you can fucking step in your toe in this same thing I have drinking overtrading

James 4:25
I think it’d be good to remind everyone to like this podcast, like we obviously are here like we’re all traders. And we’d like talking about trading but like Harry and I wanted to start this to kind of talk about everyone’s lives and like emotional like kind of journeys through trading and stuff and yeah, you know, I mean, Alex last time was great and we assume same thing with bow like there’s no one better to talk about the emotional journey

Bao 4:48
Thats the way man that’s why I’m gonna I’m gonna drink alcohol do drugs what we need to do for me to open up. Disclaimer, everything. Everything we say They could not believe what the fuck were sating. And this not real

James 5:04
You have to sign an NDA to talk about anything like yeah no

Bao 5:09
didnt do anything illegal it’s not really what I’m doing this is not really valid either did someone else so guys, the language grammar this is all fictional for fun. This is not an educational game. It just made up bullshit.

James 5:29
This is just for entertainment purposes. All right, okay. cocaine Under Harry’s noses

Harry 5:35
I think the show actually doesn’t, actually doesn’t, unless I get a lot of my peers

James 5:51
were like, what, five minutes?

Harry 5:53
All right. Our first actual question for I guess, as we wanted to get started, was like, what was your life like before trading like before you discovered trading? Like, you know,

Bao 6:07
before actually like, like, any sort of trading? Yeah. Even bullshit. Yeah. No bias.

James 6:16
No trading? No, nothing.

Bao 6:18
My first trading experience was when? Geez man, this is silly. I can’t remember how old I was right on college man like 23 years old or some shit like that. And everyone was trading a.com I’m fucking old man. But that gets filtered. Yeah, I’m born you’re born the first trade was before you were born. But this is no longer I was trading it was doing fractions. No. So it was like you imagine a stock trading $2 and one for run. So you had to be really good at math. People had calculators do you have trading calculators? Because what the fuck is 132 One over 32 Right. And so those are so that was what the day was the first online trading was so I was there during the first online training that’s how they started commercials all that stuff. That’s how I started training right? Yeah, this is before fucking AmeriTrade dude is crazy. But uh, but anyway

James 7:36
how did you even get like what were you doing like before right before you figured out

Bao 7:40
that’s why that’s why I want to paint the picture because the kids who don’t have the internet I barely have the internet we get identifier we get right on college man. And so so this is the thing that when I was in college I I studied engineering because I like math and all that and so I just took out a fucking I went to the library remember that shit? Yeah. And there was no internet by way there was like no Google and shit like that. So we so when we copied our fucking notes and wrote essays and copy we actually had to get it’s like a PDF, right? That sit down to copy and paste.

Who Made the Most Money With the Least Education?

Bao 8:27
Okay, so this is how ancient it was. So, so I took out a, like a magazine, I go what is the who made the most money, and it was always engineering, which made the most money with the least amount of education. Okay, over 44 years, that’s what I can make fucking 60 G’s a year will be 62 I graduated my whole goal was just to make $100,000 by time I was 30 years old, bro. So I graduated when I was like 2221 22. And I was like, fuck, man. I’ll be fucking rich. My goal is to be an engineer. And by the time I hit 30 is over like 100 grand a year. Yeah, so that was my path. I was I was a good fucking worker. I had my first job if school was $36,000 a year bro. Imagine that that comes down to $18 an hour. Yeah, that is I couldn’t feed myself more than that per hour on door dad. Your dad is what I would every hour but um, so I gave before just plugging work in a cubicle bro. And but the thing with that is it’s great. And you don’t want i’ll tell you it’s great. People hate we’re gonna Heugel this. This is bullshit man. These guys. These are fucking guys. I’ve never actually tried never worked in a good work environment. Because I went to school so I had decent jobs. It wasn’t like blue collar or anything. And so I loved it. I loved it because I didn’t know what the fuck I was doing. And I was surrounded by people. And it was a steady paycheck every fucking week I feel like if I jerked off, I didn’t do anything, I would still get fucking drunk I call in sick. Okay, so those are the things that when people go oh, you should be on Baja. It’s fucking fire until you don’t make any money trading. Yeah, exactly. So go for it so. So that light when I look back at that Life sure I was not making much money but I wasn’t poor guy. I was well, you know, so what I was looking at making 36,000 Then my next job was 48,000, then 70,000 and then 90,000, then 100,000 is almost 200,000 Then I think my biggest year was like 252 to $50,000 a year. So I went from 36,000 to 200 and number this is like over a decade ago. Patient It was fucking a shitload of money, right? That was Yeah, yeah.

James 10:52
So did you enjoy your job? Like, did you like, did you?

Bao 10:56
In the beginning, I love what I did, because it was sociable all that shit. But the problem I had was that eventually you outgrow everything, because what happens is that if you’re a socialist, you would love that shit. Because fuck me. I don’t have to do any work. Someone else cared for me, right? I was so fucking good at my job. So fucking good. And that’s how I rose so fast. Financially, right? They gave me raises, I quit. And then everybody wanted me, right. But the problem was like, fuck, man, I did all the work and my boss made all the money. So when he’s looking at a guy like me making 100 grand 200 grand a year for Corporation, which is a shitload of money. But these guys are again, fucking rich. They’re making millions off auctions and shit like that. Right? And so that’s what fucking led me to like, fuck this shit. And so the greed, the human greed, like I think I’m better than you to try and find something else. So but when I look back, I’m telling you, man, those were the best days of my life really, guys. not financial. It’s just the terms of if I wasn’t that fucking greedy. And if I didn’t see the.com Boom, I see everybody getting rich getting richer than me. I mean, fucking happy. And so my advice to these kids today is like, Fuck, man. It’s I call it opportunity cost people if your opportunity cost is zero, because you have no job is zero, motherfucker, you having a job in college is better than staying home doing nothing. Right? And so my opportunity cost was 250 grand a year. They said, so. So in order for me to be satisfied, I had to make 200 grand more in daytrader. Whatever, right? Or you reach a point where you make enough money and you put it away. Then you can say fuck this shit. I don’t need the money anymore. Right? I wasn’t rich by any means. But I mean that down making six figures guaranteed. And so I was nuts to buy a nice house. The house was really cheap back then. Right? There’s still like 800 grand worth it for there was right. So my first house I bought was 70,000 for a two bedroom condo. Yeah. 70,000. Okay. San Jose. Sold it later for 250,000

Bao 13:07
Yeah, and then, so then after that about an eight hundred thousand doallar house, yo, they’re all from Fucking A $30,000 downpayment.

James 13:15
That’s insane. It was so different. You know, like me trying to get my first house I

Bao 13:21
was making Yeah, like 50 grand a year. So I was making the money. No one’s fucking making millions nowadays, right?

James 13:32
Yeah, so. So it sounds like life was pretty good. Like, at least from the stance of you’re making good money. You’re young. You had a steady job. So like, how did you even get into trading and what led to that

The Miserable Stage of Being an Investor

Bao 13:42
I fucked up in life guys. I call it ignorance is bliss. Remember when you’re a kid, I was a poor kid. I never knew I was poor. Only your fucking war short. It was a hey, you’re not eligible to work I was. Well, we start to get arrogant. So there’s that arrogance, right. But for me, it turned out well, but it could turn out very ugly. It’s like, that sort of thing. I’m better than other people that people making more money than me because I was stuck in that corporate job. And so that’s when it’s kind of like gets kind of dangerous if you have a bullshit self esteem. Like, you know, like, I mean, I wasn’t the best, whatever. But I knew I was not the worst, right? So yeah, yeah. The way I taught, I drove around, but I always back it up. I’m not the kind of guy No bullshit. You have nothing. Right? Yeah, I didn’t make something of myself first. And then I said, you know, that’s how it is. Right? So so when I look back, man, it’s a good and bad because no man, I could have wrote out that corporate job and probably still be very well and probably be happier in terms of it. I’ll tell you man, I went through a miserable stage where you imagine being every human is a sociable individual. I’m an introvert and really because I’m an engineering term but at the same time I still only see people and imagine now for two decades not seeing a single soul do working by yourself. being stressed the fuck out, losing money sucks, you know, things like that. I don’t care what you lose, you’re still fucking stuck. Not having a steady paycheck, having to go buy your own health insurance not not being provided for not it’s like, I can’t take a vacation because I have no income. You know, if you’re a day trader you counting on vacation. Whereas if you have a job, I can think of vacation pay for me. It’s just a human. The human interaction is what I miss the most. And for most they will crack most people will fucking crack like right now during the quarantine. I see so many friends with so many people like fuck man I can’t go outside I can’t socialise I can travel I can do this year they’re fucking breaking mother fathers or three months and fucking 20 years Oh, how the quarantine tree you want quarantine.

Harry 16:16
myself the same way my family and relatives would come over. Oh my God, my life has changed. Like How has your life changed? Not really. Like you realise how isolated you actually are. When stuff like this goes down and you’re like, Oh, I didn’t really you know

Bao 16:34
I forget your questions.

Harry 16:42
Well, no, it’s just you know, like introduction you know, the thing that I was most curious about this was a question that I’ve always had it’s like okay, so you know, we’ve heard like from like previous you know, whatever like so basically like I don’t know how it went were you like re mortgaged your house or something and said this is my last shot like like for you to do something like that like like back in like the OTC penny stocks because this was what I was always like kind of wandering and like confused about like, like, how did you get so good? Like how did that like kind of learning process start like is it similar to now with like kind of NASDAQ where like you know,

Bao 17:28
I’m saying is is is different technically but it’s the same process wise I’ll tell you why. Because what we’re trading now is all scam Yeah, small cap a bunch of fucking scans the only reason they’re running these thoughts up is these are bullshit companies that need financing right their ultimate end game is the fucking same exactly same thing with penny stocks they run it up with to do financing to sell shares. There’s two there’s a couple ways to do financing the the small cap is the bank and investment banking more legit way but still not legit. Come on, man. The fucking stocks go from $1 and $10 and then they get an offering right? Rockin bullshit HOW THE FUCK IS THAT legal right?

Harry 18:13
Who knows? Anyway,

Bao 18:15
if you’re an insider your story like shit that’s on their friends to do all this shit. Okay, so let me tell you how just walking through the stage right? Investment Banking works guys, I hope I hope nobody’s gonna fucking call me but if you have an account if you’re a big trader you have an account at fucking assignments. You have a big account and let’s say I’m making this up this is all fictional. This isn’t so big bank let’s say Goldman Sachs I’m just making up another one sack right. It could be some boiler room

Harry 18:56
I don’t know where he went. Anyway, keep continuing

Bao 19:07
fucking I told you, man. I’m gonna go on the next segment tell you more shit. It’s like crazy. This man I’m gonna get fucking killed but I’m gonna make it right. Some other firms. So basically, whatever the big firms are, if you have a lot of money with them. You know how they do you know how they shop or offering you how they come up with the price. They have a guy calling the their big client. They say hey, man, we have this doc. Is that $10 right now? We’re willing to sell it to you for $3 a share. Wink wink.

Why You Should Not Be Part of a Public Offering

Bao 19:44
You wouldn’t be part of this. You’re an accredited investor. Would you like to be part of this public offering? What the front? I know they’re coming. How you think they’re packaging and selling it? Where the fuck are they selling $50 million or $3 when it’s just trade Gotta know

Harry 20:00
exactly all scam you say who

Bao 20:03
who the fuck do you think there’s selling too

James 20:05
so how do you get that phone call like who do you have to be to get calls like that? Who do you have

Bao 20:10
you have to blow me

Bao 20:19
I was never involved in it by the way these are I read on the internet

Bao 20:27
legal what is not legal about being an accredited investor? You’re a fucking prime broker calls you and says Yo man, you want to be part of this public offering? What do you think that shows

Bao 20:39
Just so these are all scams and stuff but we’re like we’re OTCs the same shit ?

Bao 20:56
This is not a scam that’s I’m fucking investment banking works bro Yeah Okay, so that’s what the fucked up part so so I don’t fuck with Tesla issue like that because I don’t know the end game that will put my paygrade right my paygrade so so I fucking have all these things okay every everything you invest in the world if it’s an efficient market it’s everything’s pipe work that needs to be price you OSHA which says meeting has been upgraded by host okay, it’s a mortgage we’re totally efficient worry that you won’t call it completely price right by P E ratio that should have nothing to trade what the flip right the phone will be fucking flat if it’s worth $10 or $10,000 Right and so you have all these Twitter motherfuckers broke losers by the way all the guys on Twitter I think they’re fucking hot shit right most of those guys are broke as fuckers that’s probably a better complaint on the Fed all this Oh shut up. You can talk him to him and you don’t have to plug in one comma two you’re naming your bank account. You’re thinking about what to do if you are smart and it’s a rigged game shouldn’t you be rich and you know the rigged game and exactly it’s like mother probably don’t know it in you all the stock market only goes up because the Fed is printing money Why are you shorting so so when I realised that the market is full of bullshit, that every fucking industry has their insider shit I’m not part of it obviously I understand the game I’m not arrogant to think I know everything right? Like I always said man I read to be rich in there right? Exactly. I read to be talking original right I shut my fucking mouth I really don’t know what the fuck is going to happen the moral I know the end game the stock the stock is going to fucking crater it’s the time that’s important every month okay, no so you see smart mo focus bachelors. Why are you buying this pig?

How He Started His Trading Career

Bao 23:06
This is a piece of shit. Nothing no shit but wait for that shit to go up because everybody has tweeted and bashing some of their stuff short. So I’m going to tell you that then our huge long I will not a short I started my career as a long biassed trader squeezing the shit very famous motherfuckers on Twitter enough that trade OTC okay they go all wow. I don’t even know what SEC stand for finally, what the filing Edgar? Edgar is like a fucking my neighbour that moves a lot so back then I was a very unsophisticated nature I did not use fundamental analysis at all my fundamental analysis fuck how much money I have my gun. How much can I move this and I had a three year old that fucking created it were beautiful and still working today the 3d rules so my whole thing was I lose their end game. I just want a piece of shit company and I did not look at their filings I didn’t give a fuck they have one employee and another fucking admin to their name right? And I do can if you watch the movie boiler, boiler room, guys out there watch that fucking movie. That movie stuck in true. Okay, and when that movie came out, I did exactly that. I knew what they’re doing. They have a bunch of fucking shares that need to fucking sell. The only way they do is they market the fuck out of it. Right up. They don’t. That’s how they do their financing. Yeah, okay, they’re like 10 cents or 50 cents. Somebody’s fucking Goldman Sachs I’m gonna give them an offering. So what they do is they sell got convertible is all that shit. Like, okay, lonely $100,000 I’ll give you a million shares in my company. Yeah. And so Okay, so I got a million shares to this shit. Who the fuck is gonna bite off me? I am going to create an email campaign or a factor or whatever it may be right? And so I’m gonna get some fucking body running up and then there we go so my shirt. Yeah, so people think is corrupt the whole fucking system is corrupt bro always has been so so the moment I discovered that that’s when I was like okay man what can I do this small cabin sounds like a shit we know the end game The problem is the timing

Harry 25:44
it is yes,

Bao 25:46
if you’re a short seller, you just need to fucking wait until what they’re doing

Harry 25:53
yeah until it’s just the backside because I belong personally and I love sharing as well. Because like you’ll see me in chat all the time where I’m like, Alright, not going along anymore. I know it’s you know, I know that it just like stuffed into seven or I know that you know, this is holding but like, I enjoy on the front side longing on the way up. And that’s just kind of my style as to when

Bao 26:16
longing The problem for me is man, it’s so difficult because when the problem when we wake up this shit is up so much bro

Harry 26:26
Im in I’m in Canada right? I’m awake in the morning when stocks first start gapping up in pre market. So yeah, I was able to take advantage of of kind of that type of style.

Bao 26:38
I chose. I chose the penny stocks on purpose when I started is because it was a fair playing field. It opened exactly at 930 There’s no pre market no after our bullshit. The market turned off turned off. nowadays. You had the algo would work until 8pm at fucking night and we get up at three in the morning. Yeah, and you and there’s dumb fucking vine out there. I don’t know what the fuck they’re saying that oh, I want to trade 24/7 Fucking idiots. They’re sneaky in bad news when you’re fucking sleeping. You cannot compete with an algo that never sleeps? No. Okay, the you have to have the same playing rules as everybody else to in order for you to compete with them. And the penny stocks was very fair because it started at 930 did not 7am So new came out. Everybody has to buy it doesn’t just magically, you know, get all this shit. Right. So so. So every system has the efficiency and efficiency efficiencies, deficiencies, whatever loophole loophole, if you cannot figure out what the deficiency is, you have no edge. Exactly. Make sense. So

James 27:55
how did you even like how did you even like that? Did you have anyone to influence you in trading when you started? Or was it when I moved to New York,

Bao 28:03
There’s one guy that ran a chat room. His name is Stock gappers. We used to be friends back then. So he kind of showed me a little bit of a penny stock game and he did a gapping thing. But then I took that to a different level. Like blew that off the charts. So I did have a guy that showed me and but I did. Everybody does their own thing. So I then I started to short too, you know, so I made so much money because I was able to kind of perfectly wrote it three days up usually by the third day in front of time. So trading was actually much easier before because there was less algos in penny stocks. It’s not as many algos like there are now because the liquidity is not there. I chose a I chose to be a big fish in a small pond, rather than be a small fish in a ginormous pond. Yeah.

James 29:00
You think it was much easier back that back then? I mean, like you were making all this like a bunch of money. And you just felt it was so much easier than even now,

Bao 29:08
I feel is easier is because of the lack of the robotic trading. Yeah, yeah. It’s very difficult when you compete with a robot that has infinite buying power.

Harry 29:22
Yes, yeah.

Bao 29:24

Harry 29:25
They have an algo that just like they could probably turn it on it just it’ll hit. You know, every

Bao 29:31
thing is they They don’t have any long parameters. They’ll just buy the whole fucking shit up.

Harry 29:35
Exactly. Yeah. And yeah,

James 29:39
so like, at this point, you were like, you’re what you’re you know, OTCS, you’re like in your early 20s. Right? I was late 20s. Late 20s. We did I mean, did your family care that you were trading? What did they

Bao 29:52
ask you for more money?

The Problem With Greed in Trading

Bao 29:57
So I mean fuck, man. That’s what I more requests. Yeah, that’s what I’m mortgaged my house. I was like, fuck, man, I would be so consistent all the time. But the problem I had was greed. Okay, I tell you a story like I was. It was before pattern day trader to get ready for pattern day trader. So I have 25,000 or $20,000 in the account. And then it was 60 G’s This is a shitload of money for a little kid back there, right? I just made fucking like, like a BMW back then. Right? Like, 15 years ago, right? And then I was like, There’s no fucking way to go back down. No way. And not even gonna go

James 30:41
to 100.

Bao 30:42
Dude, it’s, I think tripled within an hour. And all I could think was this dude, this is a classic of all you viewers. Listen carefully because this is you. Okay? All I could think about was not actually very happy that at triple or double my money when I was unhappy, I was pissed that it didn’t go all in. I’m like, Please fucking tank, please fucking tank so I can add more. And so what happened is when I started going down over a year, that would be rude. I have a massive cruise ship who would call my banker. So I will I will max both deep love.

Harry 31:25
Just on the back side, too.

Bao 31:28
I didn’t know anything about that shit back then. I just knew I was up fucking 200% How the fuck can I lose? Yeah. When I started dropping down, oh, okay, I’ll add more or more, or she’ll get a little more or even now. anymore. Oh, fuck im now red. So I went from, like 30 G’s on a $20,000 account to having I think five or 8000 left in my account. At the end of the day. I went from 20,000 to 60,000. And close at five to 8000. And I was in a ball bro. This is this. This is like, I think this uh, this was paradise for I think it was over. I was like, 30 or something. But but the point is, I doubled or tripled my profit account within an hour. And all I could think about was God damn, and I suck. Why did I go all in? You say and then I suck at it shit. And I’m curled up in a ball literally. Just the ugliest fucking feeling in the world. And that was when I was like, I would be very consistent. And Bill shit like that happened, right? There’s always like, one fucked up stupid fucking shit. And so then I was like, fuck this shit. Dude, I am not going to ever so I went from calling too long, too short to quit. I have PTSD, my PTSD. Oh, man, I’m so fucking much money all the time. And then I did not sell. And so I started to say this shit. I’m gonna start scalping. Because my whole philosophy is I can figure out what’s going to happen within a couple minutes easier than then a couple of hours or a couple of days. Right. Exactly. And so I during the entire day, I would not hold long. I would hold overnight because I had a system of gapping that shit goes up, right? So the prompt was dancing now is the market open up something like two 3am gapping does not work. gapping works when it opens at once that time and there’s pent up demand for that stock, though. So when a stock goes up and as strong as the clothes, right? Grandma’s at home, you’re that Father, your kid was a friend come on and read the press release. And they’re like, hey, I want to get into stock. But with the NASDAQ that’s why Robin Hood ATM. That is a two gap if you don’t have it. But they’re smart Robin, they sold the oil to the mother father, I have a million shares of Robin Hood motherfuckers by a market. So that’s why you see that shit. Yes, sure. Whatever. Yeah, they cover it with the Robin Hood.

Harry 34:12
Yeah, and I saw one time at 9am. So I remember watching the stock because like, maybe like a month ago, it would be okay to buy like 950 or whatever and kind of see what happened. And if it doesn’t work out, you know, you just sell it or whatever, you know, it work on kind of the low floats. But what I would see was that there’d be all this volume coming through and you’d have like, you know, NASDAQ or you know, someone showing 100 shares and just have all the Robinhood volume going it just be absorbing.

Bao 34:41
Whats going on? Yep, they see right

Harry 34:45
now. So I mean,

Bao 34:46
they’re doing they got they got him from world hedge MAN Yeah. So

Harry 34:58
oh no, I was gonna say because that was like a little inefficiency but then now you know it doesn’t work

Bao 35:06
you know it still goes on today it’s called an imbalance and you can you can see these imbalances net das trader up now and what how they did it but in genius right so when it’s thought a little debt level down on das you actually see it was I m be the little little three tricks I envy says imbalanced and it shows you the the implied opening price yeah it never did that before I Never No one could ever see that shit before you had to have some special tools to see the imbalance so the time that it takes them so long to do some of these holes are like 10 minutes and we’re like half an hour because they’re trying to figure out what the opening and balance prices because it’s halted because when they open up they have all the phones all these algos competing for the fucking flow so you see them yep I’m like holy crap so now if I’m stuck in on the halted intraday level up little down I’m in their dark you can see that price and you can snap right there when opens up you put your fucking price a little bit in there you’ll get that fucking price even 30 cents there because the way

How Did You Tell Your Family About Your Business?

James 36:11
that everyone needs to pay us for that secret everyone needs to venmo Bao right now. Join MIC. I love like I love I love what we talking about and like I love all of this and I kind of want to bring it back to like how when you said that at this point you started scalping. But did you tell your I’m just curious, so I don’t want to like lose this question my head Did you tell your family like how much you lost or like hadn’t made? Or did your family have no idea was it totally

Bao 36:42
they really they were clueless at all? What I was losing what I didn’t want people to know. like, fuck mom, I gotta re mortgage my money should know why you’re doing it.

James 36:54
Did she know you were remortgaging to trade? Yeah, Jesus.

Bao 37:01
My job paid a lot of money. So yeah, so taking that 50 grand the worst case was okay, I work a year you know, save every penny pay her back, right? Yep, exactly. So that’s so that’s the thing guys. Trading is much easier if you have money. Because life was easier you have money. But the point the point is like, if you’re always worried about how to pay your bills and shit, dude, you’re training for the effect that’s why I always tell people man I tell people straight up man trading is not the fucking. The vaccine for your fucking poverty. Exactly you but it is the ticket to your freedom. But in order to buy the ticket you can’t be fucking homeless. Take care of your personnel really cared for

James 37:53
it’s not Willy Wonka’s factory. You don’t just go buy a chocolate bar and make them get the golden ticket and become rich.

Bao 38:00
That’s all that movie remember? I remember the oompa Loopa it’s like I’m fucking weed movie stoner movie I’m using plugging Hi but I kind of deliberate Willy Wonka

Harry 38:23
or anything like back then? You didn’t have haters really back then. Did you?

Bao 38:29
No one knew the book. I was I was like, there was hardly any social media. I create a Twitter account you saw like I started the three from fucking shitting the beginning I got like five likes you really know like a million dollars on top of yours. And I’m the one one time I decided to start a game where people like I want to help people. Man I help so many people start chat rooms man you’d had countless people plug in started seven I was originally chuckling guy right here for free and I helped so many people make 10s of millions dollars to do this shit but it was my whole thing was never I mean that was simple dude. Right? I mean, it’s like I only must yet so. So I never wanted to be known. I was back then. Like fuck man. I didn’t want my girlfriends and who my spouse who were my friends and know how much money I hated anyways right? So I was like fucking trying to bug and live in humble fucking life is like smoke and to be honest, I didn’t want any money out of fucking growing my account right it was over $4 million right yeah and that’s because back then there was no leverage on OTC so I had so so basically whatever you fucking trade there’s all cash. So there was no fucking margins and shit right? On ship has under like $1 to $5 to 50 Typically, everything was margin margin margin that $2 or 50 cents a share, even if it’s 10 Fucking cents there.

James 40:04
I’m still here my girlfriend’s wining me so I just wanted to answer that.

Bao 40:08
Oh, I was like what showed your crotch Well, enjoy giving you a heart attack lol time for podcast

James 40:25
just like a default picture that you pick for your for your your screen

Bao 40:29
picture of your crotch

Bao 40:39
I forgot the question.

James 40:42
You can’t drink and do this or you just keep forgetting.

Harry 40:45
We’re talking about like haters or something.

Bao 40:47
Oh, you know what, no one knew who the fuck. And then so I knew that once I became public, like fuck, I didn’t expect this much level of trolling to be honest. I really thought like, oh people Oh, I’m gonna learn how you do it. So my whole thing was when I became public it was not for me to Bratton, who the fuck cares? If I wanted to brag, I would probably brag. But I was. I mean, I was making money well, before anybody knew who I was. So when I cannot see when I help people, because I was so stuck and stuck in this hermit life. Living in my funny room all day. So. So my so the sad thing about social media, I thought people would embrace it. To be honest, 80% didn’t embrace it, then like, oh my gosh, show me how you did. And I made millionaires in my day.

Trolls Trying to Kill Me

Bao 41:36
Okay, for free. If I didn’t have a lot of people, but that 10 20% of segments out of just two hairs. I didn’t expect the level of how nasty the trolling would be. They will try to live Yeah, what God fucking came into my New York House and vandalise my fucking house. Oh, and then I’ll tell you the story in New York City right so I had a free chat room with a competing charity or something was like wondering like the fuck that they got found a word for me live I came back home in New York City I lived in on Fifth fifth on Fifth Fifth Avenue whatever Yeah, it was right so I came home and there was it my door metallized tomatoes all over the fucking there my fucking Super like superintendent like what the fuck bow you better fucking charge he tried to make sure nobody clean up right? And I was like, Holy fuck. I knew who exactly did it so I called the police this is so this was like over a decade ago bro. This is maybe 15 years ago right so for two years ago people didn’t know anything online shit. I call the cops no cops are laughing in you. What are you talking about chat Who was your AOL was the Vice Mayor this is like oh me kid right because I was a young kids when I was like early 30s and shit 28 learns that way. How old I was 32 Whatever. And they’re like you and your kin. I wonder why you call me over here to fuck like this so let’s get to one explaining this guy be like you are rocking please do to me like you’re front we think about it right? Yeah. I really do. But yeah, the Guardian likely I’m lucky

Bao 43:39
imagine that we fight right now. Now social media is more accepted and that people know what it is. But that definitely was a troll wasn’t it? So and so that was when I went dark. I shut down much free chat room. There’s no fucking word. Now these are super fucking free. People physically trying to find out where I live

Bao 43:58
Yeah, that’s crazy.

Bao 43:58
Yeah, because they always blame you for fucking their stock up because I say my short. The stock of where the fuck it may be. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bao 44:05
Or any reasons to hate you. Right? It’s like celebrities again.

Did You Ever Expect Hate From Others?

James 44:17
Did you ever expect like when you started making money and like becoming profitable and like helping people did you ever expect any level of hate or did you not even know that like exist?

Bao 44:27
I don’t have a I’m not here. Do someone following me? If someone becomes successful, I know them and have access to them. Do show me how you did it. Show me. Show me how you did give me your friend show me from you. I want to destroy your life. You how the fuck. Is that gonna help you? Yeah, so I’m a very nice guy cuz you know like, you don’t mean them. I’m not a hateful person that I try to help people. And so I don’t want to stupid their fucking level and do all this shit. But that was when I realised there’s some nasty motherfuckers out there. And I lived so long in the bubble because I was a nerd growing up I didn’t have any friends and stuff. And the people I hung out were all like, nerds. So they look smarter than that. They got rational to home by their parents. So they were like running around do all this fucking junkie show. I didn’t actually until like 19 years old. Really? Yeah. It’s all downhill from there. I wasn’t doing I was like a project I didn’t have almost like a near perfect memory. I would plug it super advanced until start drinking the moment probably start drinking over the phone, this is liquid courage. And I was a very shy kid

Bao 45:54
They go out to college, I didn’t have any friends. I was very shy. And then I go to these college parties and then I was by myself I literally walked in college parties is up and then I discovered I was fucking slam like to Long Island iced teas. We’re going to have to sit down with bang for the buck and like bank for the buck is to get you pumped up so I that’s when it was all down here blood like this. Yeah, what’s cool point? Oh, two five barely passing it.

Harry 46:30
Oh my god.

James 46:33
So you’ve had some like nuts moments like like you’ve had like the hater moments from trading. You’ve had all that but like, Have you ever had like, insanely happy moments from trading? Like is trading ever brought you like such insane joy?

Bao 46:46
Uh, yeah. Always. Maybe besides making money, or like making relationships. I met a lot of great people, you know? And then you guys I met Alex, you know, insanely happy was the moment that for me I lived in theory all my life as an immigrant all that right. I was never really a popular kid. And also like, I think I like the fact that caveman all sudden, I have a voice. I came from the immigrant kid at being an immigrant poor kid, who was bullied all the time never was shown respect. People looked at me like it was a book, are you right? So now it’s like, What the fuck? I have power. Right? I can fucking crush you. I can crush your stock I can do I can say some shit. And you know shit like that. Right? It’s like, so I’ll give an example. Let’s say like a Subway sandwich. Or actually, the pizza some shit. They fucked me up or something on pizza. I can clean it and also again, probably smarter than Domino’s. So that’s when I realised Holy fuck. So I now understand how these six masters in politics are Hallward they have so much money. But what they’re seeking is the power. That’s what they’re doing all sorts of crazy fucked up shit in life, right? Don’t need any more money. But they’re what they’re trying to do is to obtain power. And that’s why you have all these fucking crazy people doing? Like the sex scandals and shit. You know? Like, like, like, Harvey Weinstein and oneself. Yeah, what’s the first row if you’re saying it’s like, it’s like they have too much the game drunk off power. Yeah. And so so that was why this man is so insanely happy with the realisation that holy well, but But you know, I was very careful not to abuse it as much you know? And so that’s

James 48:40
the highest high right that’s like the highest high I’m trading like for you like you felt like this. Like I have a voice like I can like I can control things I can do something like I can do

Bao 48:50
something great man. I will bring my friends over as I watched me move this stock myself.

James 48:57
It’s fucking savage.

Bao 48:59
I was like, dude, because like back then. Like, I couldn’t make a stock go down just by fucking putting up like 50,000 shares on the offer

Harry 49:09
right? Yeah, exactly. Everyone got scared.

Bao 49:13
That’s illegal.

James 49:21
nothing is fucking real. So

Bao 49:25
sometimes I talk people do that. I know who’s on the other side. When I see certain prices I know from apple.com In the past I know why he’s doing it because I know I know the style and that’s probably the most luxurious I’ll do that shit. Right. And I don’t do that anymore.

James 49:41
so you’ve had like I mean you are one of the people like in my opinion that have had all the ups and downs of trading because you’ve been around out of anyone I know like the longest in this like in this industry but like so you’ve had the highs of like the power what you can do, but like have you ever had like the lows like is there some

Bao 49:58
dude, you let me tell you the lows man slow.

Bao 50:01
Yeah. Well, it was I was I was so good what I did and out there legitimately guys. If I do, I was on the FBI. And the SEC and FINRA is fucking favourite call lists. I’m not joking that tell you all the stores? Yes, you’re all those stores, for example, this is a good example. So when General Motors went bankrupt, this is General Motors a big public company, right? When it went bankrupt, it went to the penny stock. Now like so it was trading like eight cents a share. So like that, right? And this is a start up worth 50 bucks at 20 bucks, right? And they have a queue at the end. So GMT MQ anyways, let’s look at what’s in my pocket sheets. I’m trading 10% of the volume. That’s what the stock so when I used to trade penny stocks, I was 10% of the daily volume, bro. Let me not buy that. I would be like scalping all day long, right? And I’m competing with the algo which is the market makers, right? They haven’t. So basically, I’ve taken a shit. I’m not joking. There’s a true story. I’m taking the shit after the market closed. I got a fucking phone call. I’m still on Twitter. Look, this is doing so from the FTC. Can you can you tell me Okay, can you tell me why you’re trading this stock? What stock General Motors? Because I want to make money. Why did you buy so much of it? Why do you trade so much of it? I don’t make money. And she goes, Are you the guy pumping it? You know is bankrupt. Um, oh yeah, that’s why but that’s why they said this. So they’re basically trying to say that I was the ringleader to to run this manipulative thing to have these thoughts like went up five times. It doesn’t make sense like UI says, bro. Yeah, there’s some crazy things talked about right? That is still going on with the Robin Hood shit. And so and now can laughing I’ll go I will tell you the thing. Do you know what GM is? Is a fucking billion dollar company. I’m I am a fucking kid and sitting at home on the toilet right now. And you calling me? Obviously I’ve got to take that as a compliment that you think I’m the guy who’s running the funk in the building. And I wouldn’t get this call not joking with you at least once or twice a month. That’s insane. One guy from one chicken FCC was saying the same thing about another stock and she goes off the record. Do you do it? At all you trade the shit we can’t figure out how this looking good. They have me or wash and they see every fucking shit right? Because obviously, because I’ve been tampered with every fucking shit. And that’s because everything I trade eventually, there’s a lot to on it because of the skin. Eventually somebody goes to jail for it. And then they’re like most poker is named that everything was thought that we litigate. And so the wall was a fact that they subpoenaed me I went to court Jesus that I’m talking had to plead. I paid lawyers. I didn’t know what the fuck they’re doing. I’ll tell you something about the lawyers. So each lawyer I hired was the guy on TV. You see him on CNBC on TV? And they were that’s because they’re x sec. litigators, right. They work with the SEC, but they told me that they go SEC is a joke. No one knows what’s going on there. The only reason they’re in there is to pad their resume to goo so that they can go private to defend people like me. That would pay him 10,000 bucks. This is like 15 years, 10 years 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Now by and for one day to read the fifth. Then I had another case recently to the adult share from five years ago. Remember why you buy it? You run it? If I read it? Why would I sell too early and leave a million documents? So I do have 25 G’s and these guys didn’t know what the heck they’re doing. They go $25,000 retainer for me to tell them to plead the fifth could they go now? I think you’re guilty of a why? Because you knew it was a scam and you shorted it no so you’re talking about you participated in the scam knowing this I’m I’m first of all motherfuck I didn’t know what the fuck is scandal you call me right now. It’s not my job. To to fucking say that. This is a scam. It’s your fucking job. If you don’t say that was why I was like I give up on the pain stop shit. It’s not worth it because what they’re trying to do is this guys I’m telling right now man. They will never arrest the big guys and bullshit because there, they won’t get a job. They will come and attack me to get the clout to that we clear Wall Street. So Bernie Madoff came right after the break. He made up and after the the Enron shit they blamed it on the little guy so that’s why they came with a pattern day trader rule all the chips so and then after the Wolf of Wall Street movie came out that was when they shut down every OTC they changed all the partnership with OTC because they overpay in a sec. So they we clean up do you see that Google penny stock I think of all the patients but Bernie Madoff didn’t touch any thought. Bernie Madoff was a fucking if you look at me I was the CEO of NASDAQ. He’s the chairman of NASDAQ. Yeah, I know we had a Ponzi scheme for 20 fucking years. Fucking nose.

Do You Ever Get Scared of Going to Jail?

Bao 55:38
Yeah. Do they call me just like get me.

James 55:42
Were you ever scared that you’re gonna go to jail? Like Were you ever?

Bao 55:45
Yeah, They tried squeeze every motherfucker. Yep.

James 55:52
did you quit trading from it. Like read almost like fuck, I’m done trading and we’ll figure something else out.

Bao 55:57
I quit OTC because of that.

Harry 56:00
Yep. Oh, also, I wanted to mention something. I have two questions. One question is Kay when they banned you offered the night route, like what was that like? And also, when you made the switch from like, OTC to NASDAQ like how different was it? Like how crazy was it and how hard was that kind of adjustment?

Bao 56:24
I explained all the routing in the mobile Trading Book layout and also chat with traders actually to get because it’s an awesome book. It’s like it’s fictional once again.

Harry 56:35
I just forgot and I just wanted to bring it up again

Bao 56:38
this is buggy I’ll tell you how genius was the perfect trader was I was trading so much size of a penny based stock right so so nice started way before the rabbit night controls like I would say 80% of the penny stock market back then. And what I did was man I was always truck rather night. Okay, it’s like man you beat it so that was like what the fuck you doing? You’re acting like a market maker. No, that’s illegal he can’t be is what they do they make up these rules. And then so so that was I was killing night every fucking chance I get because the problem that’s the only route and Arthur was not available back then for for Pesach right and that was the market maker. So I would take all their overflow I was just setting the bid and the offer and I knew the direction they’re going I’m saying so I’m still on Audible basically. And that night basically wanted to kick me out and I couldn’t do anything because they said they were a private company so they just basically what they did was they call my broker the bad bao but we’re gonna shut the whole firm now. So some of my brokers they were so nice because I may have so much fucking money bro. Like literally hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of dollar commissions. And not only that I was the biggest orderflow to get down in the race for nitrous ironic right I help them get cheaper rates for night route for them right and then they wanted me turn off so they would create a special dummy account for me it didn’t say all these it was a cat and mouse game. Yeah, but yeah, but they came to the point where they knew my workflow they followed me around they had an eye it gives you it right and they go You’re fucking done so I would say the hardest thing for me back then was trying to find a broker that would let me trade the way I wanted to trade and so I bounced around from budget brokers and so so it came to fruition says you’re banned me too. So I was like Alright man, if I’m gonna go out I want to walk you Fannie Mae Madison Julius fucking genius ship so I was trading with four accounts because different booger different accounts different right? So it’s like that where no one knows who the fuck is do right? And so I would be I have for order rally up and so so that data back so people will think like, Oh, I was all in No, I do believe I’ll make a massive amount of money and stuff that already right but it was just a perfect opportunity. Where I was long I think like 20,000 shares of FMA when it was like at four bucks or something overnight? Because I wasn’t sure it was 1000 us your position so I’ll start sweating while I was making like 50 ground and before then 400 grammes a day so I so so wet when the market opened up the whole long a gap to fill out a gap down bro I was like down 10 G’s or some shit like that right? I was down like it was down Tent City chances of showers down like 810 four to 10 G’s I forgot like fuck, so I think that people didn’t realise that they I just found the chat logs with my friend that made a million dollars a day to train with me. That was the guy I want to talk with him but um I wasn’t on the chat was I was actually gonna say for this four to 10 grand before I made that 1.4 million. I was like to read bro and so I want to have a fuck I did and so I felt good. I took a loss I took the fucking loss I was so pissed but they went right back alright shoved inside and I keep on the idea I did what we’re trading did nowadays what they doesn’t but I don’t have to do it like I have four counts at four massive accounts and so I was struck by with every fucking town that are on the prices right I knew that night was a deck that night would never steal me so I use that to his fucking disadvantage. I had fucking million dollars of buyout by orders now they won’t steal me legitimately open market orders with limit so I put a limit here they don’t kill me the girl I go up they go next you know I had a crooked chain of million dollars of fucking buy orders and it won’t look until me I was already in like 2000 series trying to add more than 200,000 shares of a $5 software the plugin they would pull the chart later actually pulled the chart now let’s walk through this this is pretty cool. Pull up. So let me let me text you. This is cool man. I think we I don’t think I’ve ever narrated



About the Author
119 posts
James F.

James Freedlender is a driven day trader and entrepreneur hailing from Boston. Since embarking on his trading journey in 2018, James has honed his skills and specialized in trading penny stocks, with a focus on longer time frame moves. His dedication and sharp instincts have contributed to his success in the competitive financial world. In addition to his day trading accomplishments, James is a thriving business owner, running a popular barbershop and collaborating with his family in the design and renovation of homes and businesses. His entrepreneurial spirit and keen eye for detail have paved the way for continued success in his various ventures. Outside of his professional pursuits, James is an avid golfer and hiking enthusiast, always eager to explore new trails and perfect his swing. His love for travel has taken him to many corners of the world, enriching his life experiences and providing inspiration for his work. A firm believer in giving back, James is passionate about helping others achieve their financial goals and guiding them on the path to success. His wealth of knowledge, combined with his dedication to uplifting others, makes James Freedlender a respected and admired figure in both his professional and personal life.