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James 0:02
What’s up, everybody? We’re back with the after hours podcast, we have a very special guest today our very own special super duper head moderator. At My Investment Club, we have Joe Kelly. So thank you, Joe, for coming on.

Joe 0:17
Thank you guys for having me.

What Was Your Life Like Before You Started Trading?

James 0:20
Perfect. So, as you guys know, we started this podcast we’ve had Bao, we’ve had Alex on. And we tried to do it a little differently. We tried to get more into the emotional side of trading, not I mean, we get to the journey of how they got here. But we also want to hear about the struggles they went through emotionally, family, everything. So that’s kind of the basis of our podcast, and we kind of want to keep along that same line. So kind of getting into it. So Joe, if you want to take it away. What was your life like before you started trading? Like, what were you doing what was work like family, and all that.

Joe 0:59
So I have no history in the stock market. I have no history in finance, or any of that. When I was 18, graduated high school, I then went off to college for actually classical guitar.

James 1:19
It’s a thing?

Joe 1:21
Its a thing actually like to play in an orchestra or a symphony. Oh, shit. And so when I went on that, but I moved, like three and a half hours north of where I lived in Oklahoma at the time. And short period of time later, I ended up moving back to my hometown. Because the cost was just way I don’t come from any money whatsoever. Yeah. And, like whatsoever, did not live in a nice town did not live in a big house did not have new cars, nothing. And it was just me and my mom. And so whenever I moved back, I decided, well, I’ll just do two years at the community college. Because everything at that community college like we were in a big small town, if that makes sense. So basically, I made sure that everything he taught at that school would transfer to all the universities that were around. And so you could go there, get all of your basics, and you didn’t have to pay out the ass. Fortunately, I was able to go and get a full ride scholarship for performing arts. And so I didn’t have to pay anything to get that done to get all that done. And so time goes by, I graduate that and I go to University of Arkansas, and I’ve entirely changed majors in that time. Oh, wow, Harry, all of your messages finally coming through.

James 2:57
That Canadian bullshit serve the Canadian

Harry 3:00
Finally, through finally, fucking sucks Jesus. Anyway, so. So

Joe 3:11
I went to University of Arkansas. And while I was at the community college, I changed majors, I did not continue performing arts I just played and performed while I was there, to pay for everything else.

Why Did You Gravitate to Electrical Engineering?

Joe 3:24
But I was taking other courses, like physics and chemistry, and I was actually going to specialise in pharmaceuticals and organic chemistry, because I always liked math, because it’s definitive. And you know, it’s, it’s black and white. There’s only one answer. That’s right.

Joe 3:45
I always liked math, though, is because it’s either you’re right, or you’re wrong. There’s no like, Dude, it made me so mad in like English classes, reading speech, all that other stuff, you know, when there was like that, you could say an answer. And then and then the teacher or the professor would be like, well, you know, there’s another interpretation of it. And I’d be like, fuck, you know, there’s no interpretation, there is no different interpretation. That is the interpretation. That’s what it says. And so I gravitated to math, because it’s one final answer. And so I went and continued in electrical engineering, after the chemistry thing, because I took organic chemistry and nearly failed. Had that was the only cost. Because it was one of those moments where the professor came to me, he goes, Hey, look, you know, you’re one of the five or six people that are probably going to have to stop this terms before we take the midterms because if you go past the midterms, you got to stick with it and whatever you get as your grade is your grade. And he goes probably would recommend not continue.I like Dr. Curtis. I’ll never forget him. That’s awesome. And, and he goes, probably wouldn’t continue to because you’re not going to pass this class, you’ll have to retake it, it won’t look good. And I’m like, Okay, thanks for that. So I left and I went to talk to the counsellor and she was like, Look, these are what your credits transfer for. You can either continue in this path or go with engineering and I was like, well, since I’ve already gotten this far, let’s just go with engineering then. And so they roll me and all these other classes with engineering in the next semester, and everything goes through that and so I ended up moving to Texas at that point.

James 5:32
And you’re single right you don’t you don’t know your wife?

Joe 5:35
I knew her at the time, but I moved to Texas because I wanted to move to Texas. Okay. Yeah, he was gonna come along with you was gonna come along, and he wanted to do that or whatever was, and so I’m going to Dallas because that’s where all my family is. I’m going to Dallas and so I go to Dallas. I get a job working at guitar centre. And just to pay my way there exactly. And and then I’m postponing going back to school. Okay, because if I can live in Texas for a year I can then become a Texas resident because I’m not Texas born I can become a Texas resident in a year and then in a year I can get in state tuition I don’t have to pay out of state tuition costs they have that inherent here Harry I don’t know if they do that in Canada but

Harry 6:30
a little bit but

Joe 6:31
free there. But here in the US we have to pay for this shit

Harry 6:43
Fuck Canada, bro.

James 6:49
Were you still performing at random? Are you still performing any shows? Nothing? No? Stripping? Nothing? Nothing?

Joe 6:56
Stripped on the side? Yeah.

Joe 6:58
Passive income, I guess it’s active income. That’s more than anything. But. So I, I’m, I’m working at a guitar centre. I’m postponing, like, going back to school because I don’t want to pay 40 grand, I’d rather pay 15 Because I was going to have to get loans at that point. Like, I couldn’t get any more full rides. I couldn’t get any more of this. I could. It wasn’t available at that time to me. So I I wasn’t, you know, academically excelled enough than all these other kids that were just coming out. I couldn’t get it. I couldn’t get it. So I basically postpone it. And then in the meantime, I ended up leaving guitar centre to go work for Ford. And I just started selling cars, because I held it at this point. 21 At this point, yep. 20, almost 21. And within like a month, I’m 21. And so we’ll just say 21. And so once that’s once that starts, I go full time working with Ford. And I continue in that, and oh my god, I made more money than I’ve ever seen in my entire life. I had never made six figures in my life. Ever, ever. No one in my family did know, besides like my aunt that lives in Texas. But yeah, nobody back at all ever saw that kind of income. Nobody. It was nothing. Nobody had ever seen it. I never thought I could do that. And so all I did was go out and work. And so I ended up being fortunate enough to meet a general manager that ran the store that kind of took me under his wing, because he liked my work ethic. And he trained me all the way through up to upper management. And in two years I was I was leading my own teams, I was leading my own sales teams, there were literally people that were twice my age that I was telling them how to do how to do this. Went to this point, yeah, 23 coaching, you know, 40 50 60 year old people, wow. And went through all that stuff. And then ended up in sales management. And then I went to finance and then I started moving around. I started going to different locations, and working in those different locations. And it would do it it was just like every year every two years I was moving. Yep. And so in that interim time when I was 23 or 23 24. I meet my now wife, and then we get engaged and then we get married. We have a kid and then we have another kid. And in that period of time of having two kids we’ve moved three states already in the periods of marriage first kid pregnancy of next kid birth of next kid, like it was hell. It was it was hellacious. It was like we were here we were Were there we were here we were there. So we did you enjoy it?

Working in the Car Industry

James 10:04
Did you enjoy working in the car industry? Like during that time, but was there a period where like you thought that was the best job ever you like fucking loved it? Or was it honestly kind of?

Joe 10:12
Absolutely, it will be something I eventually go back to not working in that is like in a management sense, but it will be something I eventually invest in. Because I have people in upper management that have connections with those that can act, because if you have an X amount of funds, you can become a silent partner in one of these stores, I swear to you, there is nothing that prints money more than maybe like drugs, the sale of cans and cocaine than a car dealership or, or the Fed Yes, there is nothing that prints more money than a car dealer, the people, the amount of capital that flows through those places on a daily basis, it is insane amounts of money. And it they literally just print money if it has nothing to do with the market, just that alone automobile industry automobile sales. That’s what I would tell anybody to put their money in and interested if they can, because you have to be approved by the motor company, you know, whether it’s Kia, Chevy, Toyota, Ford dodge whoever it is, if you can actually be a part of that in, so you can’t. So there’s a long, there’s a long process as to whether you can own one of their stores or run one of their locations, and so on and so forth. Anyway, so I knew people that did that. And I wanted to continue doing that. Yep. But I started doing 12 14 16 hour days and working six, seven days a week. And eventually, I got to this point where I was like I need to and I’ll tell you what sparked it is I got a really big bonus check on time. More money and I’ve ever seen in a single check ever. And because we’d hit all of our sales targets and all this stuff, and it was the motor company paid out big the dealer paid out big and it was like we were all like holy. Yeah, it was. It was great. Because I didn’t know what stock trading was at that point.

Joe 12:37
And so I got this check, and I’m just holding it. And I’m like, What do I do with this? Dude, I had no savings. I just wanted to ask if you’re ever not everything I ever made, I spent it. New cars, new clothes, designer clothes, designer, everything. It was you know, it we rented in houses. We didn’t buy any homes. We didn’t buy any homes at that point, because we moved so much. It was Yeah, I can’t I can’t buy anything. So I’m just I’m just renting the nicest houses that I can add. So I’m like maxing out my income in like how much house? Can I get? The nicest house in the nicest neighbourhood? Dude, because I come from nothing. Yeah, so I was like, I’m gonna buy stuff I want to live in it. And and so it was it. So I was in the saver at all, whatsoever.

James 13:33
Was your mom, like amazed at this, like just seeing places you’ve lived in shit like that. Oh, absolutely.

Joe 13:39
Yeah, absolutely. She’d come over and she’d be like, I’m so proud of you. So proud of you for all the work that you’ve done.

Joe 13:45
And I went Hey, Mom, I want to learn stock trading. What? Yeah. So and, anyway, so long, all that goes through, and I get the big bonus check. And I’m in Kansas at this time. And I’m looking at it. I’m like, What do I even do with this? What do I even do with this amount of money? I’ve never saved any money. But I was making I was making to a point where I was like, I can’t just blow this. I’ve got kids now I got to think about this think long term. And so I was like, how do I grow this? How to turn 20,000 into 20 million like yeah, and the typical person popped up. How to Turn how to how to make a million or whatever it is. As he in a blue Lambo

James 14:50
Was that what got you?

Joe 14:53
Oh, man. What were I Yeah, I was hooked. And it was that first like stock that went from two to 20 in a matter of minutes, and keep in mind, there was still some hot OTC plays in this time. Yeah. So it was still OTCs it wasn’t all listed. It was still some it was still some listed, but when I started, it was still good OTC placemat, not, you know, like not 2013 When you had like, awesome penny stocks.

James 15:25
That was 15. Right?

Joe 15:28
so, no, oh, shit is 2020 That would have been 2014. So I was born in one year from missing Fannie Mae.

James 15:37
I was one year. Let’s be honest, you would have missed it. If we all would have missed it.

Joe 15:42
I wouldnt have known what to do. I would have I would have fucking bought the top and sold the bottom I would have decide. I mean, I would bow would have been selling all of my orders. I’ve been like buy it. And he’s like short it. And that would have been me. I would have been there that would have been you would have been filling into a short positions. I would have been the NITE market maker.

James 16:02
Filing a lawsuit!

Joe 16:06
Yeah, and so I missed it by a year. And so I started learning. I take that programme, that that you sign up for? Dude, I spent because again, I’m not a saver. Here we are. I bought everyone’s content. I bought everyone’s service. I bought everyone’s everything because I knew nobody that knew how to trade. I knew nobody that had anybody in any interest in the market. I had nobody to look to I had nobody to talk to. And nothing. There’s a mark on my screen. None of this is like oh my face I was like get that off to that.

James 16:49
The Fly on Pences head. Now, how are you finding out about these people? Did you have twitter at this point? Or were you just on like?

Joe 16:59
I didn’t know. It was a thing. I didn’t I just go I know what Twitter was. I know what it was because obviously because you know, there’s no censorship there. And you can be like, well, that girl posted what?

The Value of Trading on TWITTER

James 17:11
Twitter was great.

Joe 17:15
There was some serious value to it. Yeah, and so it was dude, I just started with nothing, knowing nothing. Following people following trades. My I remember my first ever trade, I got the text message alert to take this trade. And I was like, Yeah, I’m going to be a millionaire. And like I took it made $40 I thought I was the hottest shit in the world.

James 17:49
That way while we’re on this text message thing. So one time I was cutting hair, and my phone was sitting on the counter because at this point, same thing for me. I was learning to trade. I get a text alert to buy this like stock X, Y and Z. I leave my client is the dumbest shit I’ve ever done. I leave my client I run in the back on my laptop. I buy this stock. I bought 1000 shares with two dudes over

Joe 18:10
here like this is like half a shave half standing up. And James like

James 18:15
I was actually doing a I remember like, yesterday, he was doing a beard trim. Half of His beard was cut and I’m like dude, sorry, I gotta buy this stock. I’m being told to do this. But 1000 shares and like a $2 stock and it tanked 50 cents instantly. And I’m like, and then I just wandered back to this guy’s chair. And I’m like, just just miserable. I’m like, e trade account but

Joe 18:44
He wants to talk about it now. Did you make money? Going? Where’s that? shut down? Shut up. Shut up, or I’m gonna cut you like Edward Scissorhands.

James 18:56
So how did you at this point? Did you tell your wife? She’s your wife at this point. So do you tell her anything? Or were you just like, kind of like watching porn like secretly doing this?

Joe 19:09
No, she knew Yeah, no. We had a baby. So in Kansas in Kansas, they don’t build two storey houses unless you’re a millionaire. They instead they put the second level in the floor because all the tornadoes so you get to based on instead Yeah, so funny fact. They’re actually more tornadoes in Texas in Dallas area than there is in Kansas all put together.

James 19:35
Have you had a bunch this year? Not even?

Joe 19:39
I don’t know. Yeah. I was too focused on fucking not trying to die when I went to Home Depot from somebody coughing in my mouth like

James 19:49
Tornado behind you.

Joe 19:52
Not concerned. Not concerned. I’m going to need you to stop that tornado. This guy over here. Knees they’re gonna need you to get up and leave. It was. I have no idea. I have no idea. But all I know is that when we were in Kansas, there was like a bunch of tornadoes in Dallas and they were like, in some some service, some new service out there somewhere. It was like, statistically there are more tornadoes in Texas than there are in Kansas. And I was like, oh shit look at that.

Joe 20:23
So naturally you move to Dallas.

Joe 20:24
Yeah, so naturally, I’m like, Well, fuck, this was not enough danger here. Let’s go back to Texas. And so like, I was gonna, I was gonna live where the Wizard of Oz was.

Harry 20:36
That’s exactly what I was thinking this whole time. A

Joe 20:39
Canadians know about the US and Kansas. They’re like, that’s all they know about Kansas. Yes. So she knew everything. Yeah, because I was in I was in that guy’s course. Right? I don’t know if I should name dropping this. I’m probably not. I’m probably not. Okay.

Joe 21:00
Everybody knows who you know. Yeah, we all got it. He’s got a nice little curly Hair.

Joe 21:06
I got nothing against it. I got nothing against it. I learned metric, fuck done, and met a lot of people and got introduced to, like, a group of like a crowd of people that I would have never been able to associate with anywhere else. Yeah, yeah. And I wouldn’t traded it for anything I would do. I would do everything the exact same. Every single every single time I think about this. Yeah. But oh, yeah. So anyway, the basement thing. That’s where my office was, was, you know, in there, it’s like, Dude, it’s it’s not like concrete floors. It’s like fully done basements, you know, really nice, designed everything. And it’s like, man cave area. So I just made that entire thing like an office and a music studio and all of this stuff. And so it was, that’s where I just did all the studying. And dude, I would be down there until, like, 4am. And I would have to get up at 7am to be at work at 8am. And I would just be down there watching videos, reading articles, reading, reading, reading, studying, so dude, I was literally addicted to it. I was addicted to it. And so, so when people talk about you know, I work 12 I work 14 I work 16 hours a day. I don’t have time to do this. I’m like, No, you do. You just don’t. But yeah, I wanted enough. Yeah, you don’t want it enough. And it’s true.

How Much Do You Want to Do This?

James 22:38
I mean, how much do you how much? How many times do we say that? Like, especially in chat, right? It’s like, if you want to do this bad enough, like you’re gonna fuck and like that not to be gross. I remember times I’m sitting on the fucking toilet watching videos and shit. Because I’m like, I can’t stop watching this shape.

Joe 22:55
Literally what Harry?

Harry 22:59
Oh, I just said, you know, if you don’t put in the work, someone else is going to for you. Someone else will take your spot. I know. Oh, yeah. Everyone loves that, like expression, like, oh, the market is you versus yourself. But it’s like, the market is also you versus like

Joe 23:15
Millions of Chinese kid that’s doing it way harder than you are.

Harry 23:18
Yeah. But I mean, it’s true. You know. So there’s also an element where it’s like, kind of a, it’s a zero sum game where like, you know, it is like you versus someone else on the other side of the screen. And if someone else is harder, they’re gonna take your money, you know?

James 23:35
Well, I find it funny to like, people say there’s not enough hours in the day, but it’s like, but technically, if you bust your ass for even a year, I know that’s a short timeframe, but even a year, like you might be working yourself hard, like every day and then studying this. It’s like, but on the back end, you can have the rest of your life with working barely anything. So it’s like it’s kind of tough, but it’s like, you know, you get home from work book and study. You know, it’s I don’t know how you did with kids and shit. I mean, that must have been exhausting. I mean, I don’t have kids and I’m tired of kids. I don’t I don’t know how to fuck you do it.

Joe 24:10
For one, you have to have a supportive spouse. But I will say that you can’t do it. Like if I’m not going to advise in certain areas, but I mean, if your wife’s a bitch or if your husband’s a dickhead YOU NEED TO FUCKING divorce them. I’m just gonna say it like that if they don’t support it, they don’t support any endeavour that you go with. I don’t care how crazy it sounds. I don’t care. If you think that you’re gonna be able to fucking make a million selling newspapers door to door I don’t care. Your spouse has to believe in you. Exactly. That is crucial. If they don’t why the fuck you married to them?

James 24:52
Especially learning this? Yeah, I mean, I think I mean the downs. I mean, I’m sure we’ll get into yours Of course I the downs of training that I’ve had when I first started, I mean, emotional grumpy, I can think of every emotion I ever had. And like, if you don’t have a spouse, that’s not going to be like, kind of understanding, then I wouldn’t say even don’t either don’t start or divorce them if that’s what you want to do, because there’s no way.

Joe 25:18
I mean, is that good? Maybe stay? Yeah.

James 25:22
But yeah, that’s

Joe 25:26
not how a lot efficiency. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, for for the females that have that have husbands that don’t support this birds up? Yeah, I mean, pick them out fight for the men that have women that don’t support it. Birds up?

The Power of Having a Wife That Trades

James 25:42
Oh, well, If had a wife that traded ah, I always think about this. Like, it’d be cool to have a wife that would trade but if I ever saw that she had a, like a better p&l than me. I would probably freak out. I’d be like, No!

Joe 25:56
My wife actually started like watching all the content that I was because she wanted to understand what I was watching what I was trying to do, and do it. So I applaud the people that have the relationships that that you know, their spouse is that you know the computer next and they’ve set up two stations to your wife’s here or whatever it is vice versa however it is. Or you know, in this day and age, you’re here and your partner is here. Yeah, I’m not judging. Just gotta it’s not always man and wife. Not off. Neolithic like that.

James 26:37
I don’t know how the fuck they do it. I mean, I don’t know. I just know my girlfriend that I know if she was next to be trading. It would be a fucking shit show. I don’t know. I just can’t I can’t see it.

Joe 26:48
I can do it. Because I don’t know if she was there. And when you couldn’t do it. You know, I don’t know if she was there in that time to see what the struggles were.

Harry 27:00
Yeah, that’s a big power.

James 27:03
Well, for sure. It’s a big

Harry 27:05
part of it. Oh, having someone that was there.

Joe 27:07
What did you say? Say it again? That’s a big what I said that’s a big part. piarc Berg? All right.

James 27:15
p p AR T AR T R P. I’m hearing that.

James 27:28
Don’t have an accident.

Harry 27:29
I siad it’s a big part. Because you know, like, I mean, I don’t know about Well, probably not you guys, maybe but like with my experience, like, after the fact. Like it’s mostly for, like, not the struggles. It’s mostly for like, oh, well you have like this or you have that. Or I’ve heard you made money. Like, oh, I’m down to be your girlfriend, you know?

Joe 27:53
And I wasnt at that point. Yeah. My wife it was. I mean, a buddy used to have a funny thing. And we called it the year to date clothes. And it was what we use to pick up chicks at the bar. Yeah. And it was ever that and it works, bro. I’m not gonna I’m not gonna lie to you. It works. It for the women, it will work for you to just tell him for all the successful women out there. Just tell the man that you want how much money you make a year. Sign sign, they’ll sign up right away.

Harry 28:27
Guarantee, guarantee guaranteed,

James 28:31
Year to date close.

Joe 28:32
To get with and be like, Hey, I make 125 a year. What’s up? Done? I don’t care if you look like Mrs. Shrek, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. It was. And we so we always used to joke about that. We always used to say oh, did you ask her out? Now Amanda didn’t do it. I should have hit her with a year to date clothes. Just be like, here’s my gross year to date right there. We’d always mess around with each other and be like you take a pay stub to the bar. What do you do? And so it was yeah, that’s That’s genius. I mean, that’s how I showed my wife that I was successful at that point in my life. It was ours house clothes. Yeah, all that shit. I thought it was materialistic. That’s where I was wrong. Was I thought things were materialistic. Like, you need to show material items. I would literally kill to just show her like a big number in my bank account. Instead of having all that extra shit. Be like, look, I look like I’m poor. I look like I’m poor. But see this. See that? I would have loved to have done that. No, I chose the other route by every week.

James 29:40
We used to have this conversation all the time. We just talked on the phone was that if we had all the money we spent on fucking clothes on, like, just stupid, stupid, stupid shit. Like you how much more money you’d have in your bank account. You wouldn’t even it just Yeah, and a lot of that shit didn’t matter.

Joe 29:59
Wore it one Time hmm

James 30:03
Yep I would have put myself over PDT in like a day

Joe 30:06
yeah

Joe 30:08
I’m gonna just stop that I would have been over PDT in no time for PDT either I was under PDT

James 30:15
Hh really yeah I actually didn’t know that I always thought you just wanted to yourself like right away

Joe 30:21
I just split my accounts because I needed more day trades

James 30:24
Yep Oh yeah thats right

Joe 30:26
I had I had 555 and then three and it was like and so I would just fucking rotate yeah be like fuck that next account stuck now

James 30:47
You up like saying like put more money in now yeah over PDT

Joe 30:50
3 or 4 for accounts by blue the fourth one was the saving grace

James 30:58
Holy shit so at this point you were just losing money right you’re taking the courses you’re studying your ass off yeah but every time when you were making I’m guessing you weren’t making $1

Joe 31:07
Right no so now if I made 100 bucks like oh my god I was fucking at static yep really like the first time I ever made 40 Was that first trade and I was hooked and then from there on out losses dude, everybody Yeah, I bought dries Okay, before it went to the fucking 120 All right stoled overnight This is my second profit ever. So the first time I ever made a profit was 40 bucks and then just after that is loss loss loss loss loss loss loss both lots. And then the second profit I ever made was I bought dries held it I bought it into the close because it was close strong as shit. And this was the time when OTC still when they close strong they had like an 85% odds that they would gap up the next morning and you could sell into that morning gap and capture that quick volatility and then jump out and so I was trading with IB because they had the really good executions for OTCs and so I bought dries at four and sold it the next morning. Made like $1.20 Yep, I thought I was fuckin King Kong.

Joe 32:26
Yeah, I did. Oh my God did it with 500 chairs I was like wow this I was like whoa. And then I had a I had to go to Manhattan Kansas which is where Kansas State University is. If I ever had to recommend a place to live in Kansas that would be where I lived. It’s fucking cool because the entire city or the entire town revolves around the university and so it’s always like young life but it dude it’s so awesome like the streets are all like these shops and shit little bars and everything like that but it’s also set back in like a forest and so it’s all trees and so in the fall dude it looks it looks so cool but yeah Manhattan Kansas if you want to if you ever want to go and party your fucking balls off go there during like next time I see me at all times dude. Yes for real I’m not joking you with you? It is you ever think you would have fun in a Manhattan can’t in Kansas? Yeah. So anyway, I had to go there for training for work training. The next day. That was the day that drives ran to 120 and I literally I took my this how addicted I was Burro is not addicted. I was in the market. I took my laptop with me. I took my laptop with me. And I had it connected to my phone’s Wi Fi and I had it sitting on the dash of my truck. And I was watching the stock market while I’m driving you it’s Kansas roads it’s all fucking straight doing 70 mile an hour like what do you get when you’re gonna hit? barbed wire fence all right. I mean, what are you gonna you’re gonna run into the fence in the new stop in the field. Okay, we’re good. If I crash I crash I’m not really going to crash I’ll just turn around and get back on the road.

James 34:16
So you’re seeing DRYS you probably wanted to crash

Joe 34:20
Oh my God. I saw I sold it. I sold it in the gap up and I was like hell yeah. And then it closes like it fucking like 10 or 20 that day. Yeah. And I was like, great. Thanks for that. So I started doing the math in my head. You know what we all do? Fuck if I would have held that 500 shares Oh my god. How much would I be up cheeses? Wow. Whoa. And then and then I go to sleep and you know I wasn’t able to be there for the market open because I was happy to get ready and get on the road and shit. I get on the road. I open the laptop drives. Is it like 60 at this point 56 cheese’s and And I just remember logging in and looking at it and be like what?

Joe 35:06
So that was that was my first introduction to to like that was my first real life like you got it you understand you can make or no drives was my first was my first like Welcome to small caps and I was like whoa yep and what time it was something.

Harry 35:26
What type of setups were you like trading back then like was it like those?

Joe 35:31
Most times get the shares to short because everybody had to go with fucking IB yeah because you didn’t have any any besides like shirt trader which ever was notorious like Hi welcome to shirt trader we’re gonna fuck you and I just want you to know that upfront oh thanks perfect fantastic I’ll take two I’ll take two trade there and so I didn’t want to trade there because I was like no I’m not going to do this I’m not going to pay X amount of money every time I place a fucking trade and this amount of money per month and this amount and dude I was like No, no no no no no. And so I was just trading like I had three Interactive Brokers accounts under different names and that one of which was a venom trading account actually before Venom was ever popular. It was and so it was been on which traded through IB and I had an IB account and this was a time when if you were under the age of 26 you could open a an IB account with three grand so they used to have that and so like I was I opened it and then and then I had Venom trading account and then I had another IB account that I opened under my wife’s name and then I had an E trade account and so I had all three IB and an E trade and that was it but I couldn’t get the shares to short so I couldn’t short because I’ll just dip buying dip buying overnight buy breakout dip buy I that was my biggest thing is they were like buy the dip I’m like well what fucking dip do I buy? They all they all buy this fucking dip?

James 37:20
Is that meme of the guy buying the dip and it just keeps dipping down

Joe 37:25
In his journal and he’s like,

Joe 37:29
dear I lost everything again. My favourite ever

James 37:37
That was me every morning I would just like buy a dip and just keep dipping and just turn around

What Setups Did You Use to Trade?

Harry 37:46
oh I forget now to be honest

Joe 37:51
so it was what setups that I trade right was that the question

Harry 37:54
Yeah like so it’s just defy like the OTC I guess it was like panic.

Joe 38:00
I loved the OTC panics that was like the only thing I was consistent at. I tried to get on that like OTC breakout stuff. Man when you could get one Oh, it was good. But when you were wrong, you were you just got stuck. And then you couldn’t get out until way lower. Yeah, so what you got stuffed? Oh, yes. All the time. Yeah.

James 38:28
And so Harry, did you even do OTC so did you? Were you ever in OTC or any of that?

Harry 38:33
Well I actually started with shorting.

Joe 38:36
I know. I know. And that’s where that’s where the whole sniper trader came from. Because he was he was he was because I remember this because I was in another service. And that’s where I met the bear. Actually. Yeah, and I met there too. Yeah, I we may have all three been in the same place. I didn’t meet you there know what you’re talking about. But yeah, you know what I’m talking about though. meeting everyone through Twitter.

Harry 39:05
I had no Yeah, I had never been on any type of service. I said my my perspective was like, I want to do this all myself. I’m not gonna listen to anyone. I’m like I don’t believe in all this shit. I just want to try it out myself and like, and then I ended up meeting the bear a lot of people who we kind of had like similar trading styles. And I just kind of I don’t know how but like I just went straight kind of into into like Twitter. I ended up meeting a bunch of people on Twitter getting in a bunch of discord groups like that, and people would share

Joe 39:39
that I didn’t even know a discord was yet. I remember sending Alex a DM because I saw him post like a chat room and I was like, hey, what platform is that?

James 39:52
What broker do you use

Joe 39:53
He never responded

Joe 39:53
One time and I sent it. I sent him that screenshot. I was like, hey, remember me? And this was like after MIC started, because that was our last DM was me asking him. What that what is that platform? Dude, I’m not a gamer. I’m not a gamer either. So I didn’t know what discord was. I didn’t know what any of that was. Yeah. And okay, yeah. No, so I just met people through these chat rooms.

Harry 40:29
I just heard Brian Lee’s chat with traders. And it’s crazy. He’s talking about our old discord room with the bear Brian Lee, a couple other guys. And I mean, every day. And like, this is like, long before MIC. Like, there wasn’t really anything like. And so we would just all talk to each other. I was in first year university when this was kind of going on. And I thought it was so cool. Like, man, I’m actually in a chat room with other people who like actually know how to trade and actually fucking put the work in. And actually, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t know they existed. I didn’t know people were like this. Most of the people on Twitter. I know, I followed like, Bao. I know, I followed Alex, like the generic like almost that the algorithm picks up where you’re like, Okay, you follow these people when you need to follow? Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it was crazy. And so like, I learned a lot from those guys, as well was shorting. And then, after a while, shorting just was getting like, really, really expensive. And that’s when I switched along, and all that stuff. But, um, I mean, it’s crazy, like, we’ve all had, like different journeys and stuff like that. And, you know, also like Brian Lee, it’s crazy. A lot of people out of that discord chat became successful, you know. And so, I mean, that was what I thought was crazy. Is that, like, you know, you look at Brian Lee, even though like, I mean, he wasn’t in like MIC or anything like that. Or maybe he was I’m not really sure. But like, you look at Brian Lee, the fair, a couple other guys that were in there, they all became successful. And I think it was because you know, me, there, we we’re all putting in the work every single day, just like I’m hearing you just like, you know, you hear James and a lot of other successful successful traders is that, you know, we were all obsessed, we were willing to put in the time, the work, the effort, that we were willing to endure the mental pain, the goddamn mental pain that comes with it that no one talks about anymore. You know, that is friggin tough and hard. And, you know, it’s unbelievable to me to just like, you know, just to be kind of also where I am as well to, like, even think about where I came from. Because it’s crazy when you look back and even think about it, you know, but I guess my point is that, like, you know, you put in the work and, and you just keep going. And that’s kind of what we did. And that was kind of my journey as well, a lot of just putting in the work every single day, you know? Yeah.

James 42:59
That’s what’s cool about Joe. I mean, that’s what’s cool about you, man is like you have put in the work and like you have a similar story to a lot of people, because everybody I think that gets into trading has that. But there’s always that underlying difference of like, you were working, you had a family, you had all this. And I mean, at this point in your career, you were just bouncing room to room, right? And you weren’t finding consistency. So what was it for you that took you from? Like, a I like need to figure this out now and like what changed for you like, was there a person you met? Was it joining a group MIC or something like that? Like, what was that next step for you to get out of the guessing phase and the gambling phase kind of thing? And what do you even profitable before MIC and all that stuff?

The Turning Point in His Trading Career

Joe 43:42
I was Yep. And that was where so what turned me profitable was day trading actually dug me in a hole because I kept trying to long everything. And I because I couldn’t get the shares to short. Yeah, so I was like, Well, let me buy it!

Joe 44:00
It’s the worst fucking decision. Oh, I can’t short it. Well, let me try to find a long Yep. And so I signed up to this, like swing trading service. Again, because I don’t know it. Yeah. Let me learn from somebody that does. Yeah. That actually paid off. And I actually learned a lot from that swing trading service. And that took me out of the red like, I think it was like, I was like, 10k in the red. And because, you know, I’d make some and I’d lose some and I’d make some and I’d lose some and then at this point, this was like my all time low is I was like, 10k in the red. And I hadn’t made it it was just like my p&l curve was like it Yeah. And it was like, here, right here is where everything changed. And it just went Oh. And then, and I was still in, I was still in another chat room to where I was using, like, their adopted things there, they, this was not MIC, this is before MIC two. And so, and this is actually before I ever met, or I was ever in that room, or Harry met the bear, and we all were talking amongst each other, it was all in it. It was before that time. And so I finally got consistent by swing trading, and I swing trading from the long side, and I would find these like super beaten down stocks that you know, weren’t pennies. And that had a history of spiking. And I would buy them when they were like heavily beaten down and just wait.

James 45:58
Like, how much lower can this thing go?

Joe 46:01
It was like, okay, it has a history of doing press releases at this time, and has a history of doing this as a history doing this. Let me long it. And so I buy it, and I just spread it out, I picked like my top four or five, and I buy them and then I would just wait. And then like I’d get offered on its times and things. I mean, that was just you know, that’s small caps. Naturally, when you’re holding long on a small cap, you probably gonna get offered into like it’s asking for it. And so I always had this thing like don’t buy anything above five bucks because they had a tendency to offer. And so I was like don’t buy anything above five bucks, they have a tendency to offer, it’s okay, I’m not going to do that I’m not going to hold anything over $5 that, you know, looks beaten down because they’ll still offer.

Harry 46:46
And becuase you don’t want to buy anything under $1 either, because they could do a split.

Joe 46:52
Dude, I was like, I was like one to five, like this tight little range. I was like, Imma buy those. And my sweet spot was like two to three bucks. If I could find something that was beaten down like two to three bucks. I was like, okay, they in this at this point, I had learned enough fundamentals to understand the rules and things like that to where I knew they couldn’t offer on me anymore. And so I buy him when they’re stupid beaten down. I know, they can’t offer on me until they run it up. And so I would just buy it in the first day gaps sell it, I wouldn’t even hold to see how far it would go. I would just sell the gap. As soon as it got the gap. I’d sell the gap. And that was what got me consistent and works now.

Harry 47:39
Like that definitely worked. Yeah, well, it still works. Now there are people who do that right now.

Joe 47:45
Oh, for sure. Like it works. Yeah, it works.

Harry 47:49
They understand the rules of the game and how it is played. And they they do that on the side.

Joe 47:55
Yep. And so it was it was more passive income because I didn’t have to be there every day. And so now that I’m in large caps dude and I’m going back to swing trading do I’m just going back to my roots to what like feels comfortable. Yeah. And and so in small caps I started short selling because I finally made enough money to get an account over PDT and I could finally go get a broker that had the shares with Jordan once that started, I mean it was just I was hooked from there I was hooked. And But dude, they still the most consistency I ever found was in was in buying so funny, furiously beaten down plays not because I couldn’t do these other like, you know, like the gap and craps it was my that was my thing was gap and craps. Like I knew everything to know about the performance of a game. You’re such a data guy, how they work, I knew how they worked and and how the algos would run them and when to avoid them until Arkady came around. Or what was it RK? Art RK? RK? RK DA Yes, yes. I know right there yeah. And so it means James we’re on the phone in the RKDA a trade covered I’m like, what he’s like standing in the kitchen making a coffee and I’m still overground like holy fuck this just limited up and I’m stuck from where he’s like really? Oh man, I covered a minute ago you saw something that maybe made you want to

Gap and Fade and the Death Line

James 49:39
Barbie fucking Mustang and I was like

James 49:48
That was the day I knew I lost a large gaps.

Joe 49:53
Dude, seriously, RKDA happened. I was like I’m sorry. I should yeah, I’m tired of this.

Harry 49:59
Because ever I remember that whole situation going into that because you guys were you guys were blessed so much with their heart, everything was in anything because this gap and

Joe 50:11
Fade gap and fade.

Harry 50:13
I remember and I remember that same stocks like every single day where they would gap up and just instantly wash out out of the open, I think there was only one that had recovered from a gap. And that was why you ma that had washed open the same day that DPW was running, I have like a really photographic memory. So the same day that DPW was running, why you I’m a also washed out as well. And I just remember just that was like kind of the only one like there wasn’t a lot running, like things were just being pumped out of the blue. It was really illiquid, at that time that summer was very, very slow. And I yeah, I remember that, that most of them would just end up paying all day. And then our KDA had that super low flow. I don’t know if they did a reverse split. If the stock was just super low.

James 51:05
It was it was during the reverse split runners time it was RKDA fuckin Yeah, there was a whole list of them that just solo was going on at the time. Like everything was just killing us. Did I was back then Harry, I was done trading by nine. I was on the phone.

Harry 51:20
All those ones. Yeah. Yeah,

James 51:22
we used to I used to wake up early, and we’d been show it and another guy would turn on the phone and like, we’d be done, which would be short at like 7am would hold. And then by like nine o’clock, everything was toast. Those are the I mean, that’s the easiest trading has ever been in my career. And then after our que da is when everything actually changed. That’s when that that pre market shift just like it hurt.

Joe 51:45
It was like small caps have never been the same since RKDA, in my opinion, like That move was what puts zombies on the map. Oh my god, that move what because what it did our RKDA broke the death line. And then it reclaimed it. And then it did. And then it just hung there until right at 1030. And then all of a sudden, boom. And I was like, whoa, hold what the? And so dude, I was that whole thing. I was sizing into that because it had been there. I remember that was my entire strategy was was gap and fade. That was it. I’d short him in the morning. And I’d put orders and I would leave. And because they just when they zombied it was just like, it’s not enough. You know? Yeah, it was like,

Harry 52:45
It was really, that they were resolving was I think that all the people who had lost money in the morning just started buying together again, like a band of misfits and then it

James 52:56
probably

Joe 52:57
Oh, it was when that happened, man that was finally when I was like yeah, all right. Um, I gotta find something else to do. And then and then and then Brian Rivera or Trader tax CPA, me and him and met at a meet up in Dallas and we just kind of buddied up and just started chatting because he did the same thing I did in small caps he shorted the gaps, waited for him to fade and he’d swing it to and and so me and him were like Dude, that’s Hey, we do the same thing. And that’s how I became friends with the bears because that’s the bears favourite setup the bear the bear would short him at like 6am And he’d have all these pre market fucking top ticks and then it would just and then and I was like

Transitioning Into Large Cap Trading

James 53:47
I thought trading was so easy back then. Like I got my account over PDT because I’m wake up the same thing was like 7am I just short a random asked stock and it would be oh my all the way down.

Joe 54:01
Just let it run. Yeah,

James 54:03
I’d love to if I make $1 a share. I’m like this is so easy. Do you mean 10 10% of traders make it I mean at this point. So you had been making money for some time right and like you got into small caps and just got into shorting and all that and you had like I because I remember like you were very processed and data oriented in small caps. Yeah, and you had been doing well and you were in MIC obviously at this point you were that that had moderate to what was it wasn’t really RKDA or like what kind of pushed you to the point of like, Alright, I need to transition now myself into like, large caps. And what was it was it just the fact of like, the frustration like I mean, I know I want to I like hearing it, but like what what was it for you that that got you there?

Joe 54:50
So it was that summer that it was just it was really dry? There was nothing to play, even long side or short side? Yep. I don’t like trading Free market, it’s not my favourite place to be. And so I don’t like doing that. And then, so it was, okay, I have to trade pre market, I have to wake up at 4am My time to get ready for or no sorry, 3am my time to get ready for this to get ready to do this and I had to be there it was I had to wake up at 3am and my time 3am My time and be there for the entire market, pre market to get the borrows that were cheap enough or because they would just they would come and then they’d run out and it’d be like, Oh, so you couldn’t get the shares to short. It Dude, it was just it was just stagnant and all the profits. After you accumulate it all up, I would always end up giving back like 30 or 40%. And locates. Yeah. And it wasn’t it wasn’t commissions or anything because that was at the point where I’d learned how to do fantasy orders. And I didn’t have any problems with commissions or ease it I got all the ECN rebates and all that stuff. I didn’t have problems with that I had problems with the locates.

James 56:12
And so its easier now than it was back then. Oh,

Joe 56:17
I know, easier. And so I got so sick and tired of fighting that I was like, I you know, I’ve got a wife, I got two kids. She works. He does her own thing. I you know, the kids are here with me in the mornings. And then I’m doing this and I’m trying to short these fucking small caps that I got to wake up at 4am to get these fucking borrows, because they always run out. He’s the son of a bitch and brokers never do with it. And then it was dude, it’s just, uh, and then I went okay, how much do I have to pay for the stupid platform every month? How I have to pay for a scanner. Now. I need a scanner because I hate looking. I hate looking at the chat room and waiting for somebody to post a scanner. Because by that time the borrow was gone. Because it would be like okay, what’s popping up? Well, fuck, now all borrowers are gone. Yay. And then so I wanted to see it. So I had to pay for a scanner, I had to pay for a new service because I wanted to make sure that I had the news. Dude, I was like, I want to do all this on my own. I want to do that I want to do this. And so I had to have all these things then basically it was like, at that time and then I met Brian and been talking to him and it was like, and he posted like one chart of like, Tesla, or something like that, where he longed it at four in the options and sold it at 17 and it was like intraday, intraday bought it at four and sold it at 17 and I was like are you telling me Tesla and make 300% How the fuck do you do that?

James 57:49
Brian’s a Low ley and Brian is a fucking good trader. Yeah.

Joe 57:55
I was like, how? And he goes, it was just it was that it was that moment.

How He Became Interested in Trading Large Caps

Joe 58:01
He was like, I’ll show you and I was like, I’ll listen. And yeah, and and that was it man it because it was like can I apply the same MIC process in large caps? Absolutely. Does this work better in large caps? Absolutely. Can I make the same percent gains that I can in small caps and and in large caps? Absolutely. Okay, well, fuck I’m sold. Tell me no more. And then they announced zero commission. I was like, Oh my God. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so it was like, platform I can pay what in commissions I get dude. Literally, I put 30% back in my bottom line immediately. Immediately by going to large caps. Yep, immediately. And so it was like that I was like, okay, at the end of the year, I make X amount of money. And instead of you know, I give away 30% to fucking locates, I gave away 40% to the government, I keep 30% that is all you’re telling me, all I have to do is switch from small caps, large caps, and I keep another 30%. And so the government takes 40 and I keep 60 I’m listening, I and I was funny, too.

James 59:13
So it’s funny too, because as long as I’m, we’ve all known each other now it’s like, I think large caps fits your personality so much more. Because you are so systematic and like data driven and like you have you like, it’s funny, like I consider you to follow the MIC process to a tee. You set your lines you say your waters and that’s, that’s fucking it. You just do that. And I feel like in large caps, it actually works better than in small caps. And then, of course, but in large caps. It’s like line to a tee. But you know, it’s, I love it. And now so you’ve been with MIC for what the whole time right since day one.

Joe 59:54
Literally the day I still have the receipt from the day day one the day one subscription. Yeah

James 1:00:00
There was like, 100 of us that first I remember that first time it was fucking yesterday. Yeah, but how if you could have any way, not even just making money trading wise? How has MIC impacted your life? Positively? Like, what has it done for your life or negatively? But how has it impacted your life? What is it really done for you?

Joe 1:00:23
Well, so it eventually gave me a platform to teach. Because, again, I’ve watched everyone’s content out there. I’ve watched every single person’s content except for one guy, and he pronounces the word dollars, like dollars, dollars, dollars. And I’ve never watched a single thing that that person teaches, because I know it’s fake as fuck. And so I will never do it. I will. That’s the only content of anybody out there that I have never watched. I wouldn’t even I wouldn’t even watch it. If somebody gave me that content to be like, here. You want to watch this? Just to see what it’s about? No, I’ll fucking I’ll take 16 hours of my life back and go do something else. Yeah, I’d rather go haul trash for a fucking living then watch that shit. Like, I It’s so sheep’s. It was so I finally got the platform to teach. But I also MIC was was it was community. It was it was the fact that I can finally freely talk in a chat room without the head dude being like, Excuse me, that’s meant for this place. Excuse me. We don’t talk like that in here. Excuse me only stocks. And because dude, if you if you want to talk about, like, do we’re always posting food pictures. If you want to talk about fucking food recipes, if you want to talk about recipes, I’ll fucking talk about recipes. And somebody else will talk about recipes. And you can always find somebody online. You can always find somebody in the middle of the fucking night online. Talking about something. Yeah, that you can know literally you can. Yeah. And, and so it was Dude, it was like, it was just it was like the I was like, This is fucking awesome.

Harry 1:02:14
It was always in the chat room.

James 1:02:16
Theres always liquidity.

Joe 1:02:22
And so we did, they did the first q&a. And I’ll never forget it. I was they did the first weekend q&a. And people were going to come in and ask questions. And it was Bao, Alex Tosh and Nico. And. And dude, I was like, an open q&a. What? Oh, yes. Because it would usually be like a webinar. And the person doing the webinar would read one question, ran for 30 minutes, read one question ran for 30 minutes, and we’re done. And there’d be like, 200 on answering questions. I’d be like, that was great. So they did they did all these questions. And, you know, it was like, every single question got answered. Everything was in the threads. And I was like, Oh, this is awesome. And so as people started bringing their questions in, I was like, I know the answer to that. One. And so I started seeing a bunch of people ask questions, and I was like, I know this. Wow. And so I just started responding. And I was faster than Tosh. Because I was so addicted. I was so addicted. And I was just like reading these questions I was like, and I would just type it out. And I beat Alex and Tosh to the answers every single time and then they would end up just like doing the arrow. This guy, he got it, that guy. And so my answers were getting pinned like by ever by Alex by Tosh, they were just getting pinned to the channel, because it was like, that’s what they were saying. And I was just writing it shut down and putting it back in and asking my own questions too. And and then the San Jose Bino came the boot camp, the first ever boot camp. And they had nobody to do any kind of sound. And I have a background in music and music production. And at this time, I had made a couple of videos and gotten a slight amount of people were like okay, this guy kind of knows what he’s doing. And and it wasn’t until a video I made that would that was literally just showing people how to make your chart on das look like bows on real tech. So I did. That’s all I did. And bow went fucking bonkers. He was like, This is fucking glorious. I’ve had dos for like 20 years and I never knew you could do that. I was I was like it’s just a part of it. because he was like, he was like, Are you coming to San Jose? As like actually? No, I was not planning on it. And he goes, Well, just wondering, I just wanted to meet you. I was like, Alright, cool. And I just kind of left it at that. And then and so I just stopped and I was like, Alright, just do my thing. And then they were talking and it would continuing on and everything and I was like, you don’t want to reach out to him again. And so I texted him, or DM them and I and I was like, Hey, I don’t know if you guys have anybody for this already. But I have a vast experience in past in N Even the equipment to to bring it if you need me to, to San Jose to run your sound to do this meetup. How did you plan on running the sound? And he goes, what you know how to run sound? Like Yeah. And then he goes call Tosh called Nico now. And, and so I just went to the meetup and ran the sound. And then and then it was, it was like that. It was like, you know, Tosh taught. It was the weirdest conversation I’ve ever had next to a urinal. But we’re literally at the San Jose meet up and like me and Tosh. Like, I go to the bathroom. And then Tosh walks in and goes Hey, what’s up Joe Kelly? I’m like, yeah, hey, how are you, man?

Joe 1:06:30
Fantastic. Would you go? Kidding. And we’re standing there he goes heavy. So bow wanted me to talk to you about this and Alex too, but, I mean, how would you feel about you know, maybe maybe making some content for MIC? And I was like, taking a piss. Yeah, dude, that was it. He was like, yeah, just help out in the chat room. You know, where we can’t you know, when we’re not there with something, you know? How do you feel about that?

James 1:06:56
Because we didn’t have moderators back then. Right. Like, we barely have them.

Joe 1:07:01
Nope. And it got so out of hand one day that Alex DM me and he goes, Do you want to be a moderator? That’s getting fucking crazy. I was like, Okay. And so I’ve been on all these other services that I’d seen how you moderate Yeah, room service. You just get fucking gagged. Yeah. And I was like, What is this? fuckin in BDSM porn? gagging? And? And so it was? I mean, that was it. That was it. From there, there was there was nothing. It was just I saw an opportunity to teach gave everything back that I could. You know, there was some questions that were way above my paygrade that I couldn’t handle. And but it was it was that I could respond. And then Alex Tosh, and bow and Nico. They were all like, yeah, that’s the right answer. And it wasn’t like the guru just rewording my answer, just so the guru could say it. And I was like, I would be like, Bitch, you just said what I said, Why not just say like that guy. And, and it was like, from there on out. It was. I was always loyal past that. I feel like at that point to ascribe to every other single service and just say to him, I see.

James 1:08:17
I feel like at this point to like, you were a good trader, but like, when you started teaching, and like helping others is actually what puts you into that next step of like, oh, shit, like, I need to be better. Like I need to be good

.Advice for New Traders

Joe 1:08:30
You have to live by the example at that point. Yeah, you know, I mean, you can’t you can’t say some shit like, I think it’s a good short right here and then long it you don’t I mean, like, I’ve seen some people do like, like, yeah.

James 1:08:43
No, for sure. We see you

Joe 1:08:49
looks like a good short

Joe 1:08:56
what looks like a good long, short 50,000 shares.

Joe 1:09:02
Yeah.

James 1:09:10
I have to say out of all the time that I’ve been in this industry, and like, I wonder if you guys agree, but I think now more than ever, it’s the trading industry is probably the the shady that’s ever been like, and there was some sketchy ass rooms back in the day.

Joe 1:09:25
I think Stratton Oakmont was a more reputable situation than then Twitter is nowadays.

James 1:09:31
It has to be like, you see criminal, it’s like, I don’t know what you’d call it. It’s just you see shit out there. And it’s almost like my heart breaks for these new traders falling for it. Because we’ve all been there. We’ve all been the guy. And now I think it’s harder because it’s so out there. Like back when I first started. Instagram didn’t have that many ads. Like there was a you know, everyone knows the ad agency, the Leopard and the Lambo and it was great, but I mean now it’s like showing your face and Every YouTube video you go out it’s the same shit. It’s just the same thing. So it’s, I don’t know, I just feel like now it’s changed so much and and I don’t know, I guess

Joe 1:10:09
It was that leopard and Lambo advertising type of marketing that got me into the market. It’s true. I mean, regardless of like the content that I actually learned from that, pretty good actually, believe it or not, and I’ll never dog it, but it’s advertising that was always the funny part, but it’s so true. It’s the leopard in the Lambo. Like I could own a leopard. Oh my god, I can become like Dan Bilzerian Oh, yes.

James 1:10:48
I would say it has to be 90 to 95% of traders are into this because of that, that those ads

Joe 1:10:55
Especially retail.

James 1:10:56
Oh, yeah. Oh, retail. Yeah.

Joe 1:10:59
Yeah. There’s those people that went to school for finance, because they’re like, Yeah, my dad worked for a JP Morgan on the on the hedge fund side and, you know, the trust fund and, and I got signed up through your service on you know, like, we saw things. Yeah.

James 1:11:18
Because I just, I generally just cut some kid like that, just literally today, some kid who I told him, he knows what I do, or whatever. And he was like, got the same, same voice, same everything. And I guess, I guess now like, looking back on that part of your career. If you could give yourself advice, or any new traders at all, for that matter. What is like the biggest like, call it like little like bullets you would give people like, if you do these things, it’ll get you there. Well,

Joe 1:11:50
I wish MIC existed back then. Yeah, I would have saved the fuck that would have saved me a lot. So I’m not gonna say there’s any like list of things that you could do on your own to save yourself. My best advice is, if you’re watching this today, you have access to MIC you have access to a service and to an education service, it’s going to teach you literally everything you need to know in order to become a consistently profitable trader and making money on your own in a self sufficient manner without having to depend on somebody else to tell you every day what to look for. We’ll run a nice scan right here. I like this $3 area. And yeah, we’re gonna go ahead and long it like the pre market breakout. Like fuck around. Boys. Yeah. Bye.

James 1:12:51
Did you guys eat? Well? Did you both sleep Well, yeah.

Joe 1:12:56
Yeah, well, I had Ramen last night because I longed one of your pics

Joe 1:13:10
it’s no, anyway, no. So if I couldn’t tell anybody, if there was something I could go back and tell myself to do or to not do it, it would it would slowly be well there’s a couple of things but so if you come to MIC now and you’ve had prior education, let’s let’s talk to the people that have prior education that are still inconsistent looking for something better in their trading. Forget all the shit that you think you fucking know. You know, nothing. You know, nothing. You’re not consistently profitable before now and you’re coming in my See, curb your ego, no shame in it. No shame in it. We’re gonna call you out. We don’t care. We don’t care. We don’t care where you came from what you’ve done, whose tips you’ve sucked off of? Nobody gives a shit. Okay? Nobody cares what you think, you know, come to MIC with an entirely open mind. To just learn the simplest fucking process you’ve ever been taught. The simplest process to be able to go short or long in any market. Yeah, large cap small cap. I don’t give a fuck. If you’re trading the Forex room. It’ll work there too. And whatever it is, forget all that is my biggest crutch was when MIC started. I brought all these things I thought I knew okay. And I knew a lot and I knew very little about the things that really made you exceptional and that’s where bow and Alex helped me immensely was they were like look, you know, a fuck tonne, but you need to simplify it down. You’re you you’re you’re you’re focusing on way too much. Keep it simple. Dude, I was on the phone one time I’ll never forget. I was sitting outside of fucking Panda Express. And I was on a phone call with Alex and I was like, how am I on a phone call with at Yo nine trader this dude this fucking How am I? Oh, is this real? I’ve gotten bout a cell phone number. I’m on the phone with Alex, what’s happening right now

Simplify Your Trading

Joe 1:15:11
Dude and on the phone he goes, Dude, you are like, you know too much. And you focus on too much you need to you need to whittle it down to the very important things that are the only the important things. And dude I was I like prided myself on knowing a lot of this random shit. And always having an answer that it could be an educated answer, right. It was an educated answer, but it didn’t help me. It didn’t help me get really far. So MIC prior to MIC is consistent with them. I see. I went from steady to like it went from it looks good. And then like all of a sudden blow out earnings just blow through the roof. And so it but the way that that came was simplifying everything. I did everything I thought I knew I had to forget all that random shit that I thought I knew all those random things I thought worked. Oh, maybe there’s an edge if it does this. If it does that, doesn’t it? Well, no. Okay, it happened one time. No, there’s no edge in it. It just happened to be something that you saw at that moment. It never fucking repeated itself again. And so. But I would memorise those things. I would remember those things. I’m like, Harry, I have a photographic memory. Like I can remember a fucking scanner. If I see a if this is the hot chick today. I remember all other stocks that ran with it. Because it photographic from there. Yep. Me too. Good. And it was it. So I would tell anybody that’s inconsistent that has been through the wringer has been through the washing machine of services. To forget everything you think they know, come to come to MIC with an open mind and open book and a blank sheet of paper and just start fucking taking notes, watching the content and you got to live it, breathe it, and sleep. Eat everything. MIC Yeah, and he knows it all.

Harry 1:17:12
And like, it’s not like Alex has asked us to go and like make this after hours podcast and just give MIC like, you know, like, right? None of us are forced to do this. It’s because we all believe in the MIC process. And we also the reason why we believe is because that’s what makes us money at the end of the day, you know?

Joe 1:17:34
Yeah, we’re definitely not getting paid to be here. I can fucking tell you that.

James 1:17:36
Bud Light. I mean. It’s true. I mean, I feel like out of all the mods like the more we talk to everybody, it’s like the same thing. Every single moderator that has joined the team has dropped their ego has busted their ass watching content. I mean

Joe 1:17:57
Being a mod too that was part of it. Anytime we promote a mod now Alex always asked me to and anytime I said something I’ll always ask Alex or Bao or any or Tosh or any of them I’m like, do what do you think about this? Alex says the same thing to me. It’s just a sounding board. But what you said was you can’t have an ego every mod has came in and and either had an ego at a point and then lost it. But the people that have an ego you’ll never be you’ll never be a part of the community. Sorry. No, you’re probably never a good trade. It’d be an outcast I don’t Yeah, I don’t care how good you are. You’ll be an outcast because of the ego

James 1:18:35
Yeah. I don’t think I’ve met a good trader or like I mean likeable trader that has an ego like that too, or that just hasn’t had those moments that you talked about those like I don’t want to say sleepless nights but those frustrated times where like everything always to it

Joe 1:18:54
You call those head in hands moments. That the head your hands moment? Yeah. And your hands you like can I fucking do this? Can I continue with this? That was me. Six months before MIC started took the biggest loss of my career. And the best lesson Oh, I was borderline bro. I was literally borderline quitting borderline. So two weeks off. It was my daughter’s second birthday the day that it happened. So I had to go jump in a trampoline park after I lost 50% of my entire accounts in one secure just jumping off a bridge I’m just like jumping I’m just like

The Biggest Loss of My Career and the Best Lesson

Joe 1:19:43
I’m the status person and a trampoline park. Anybody can go to the trampoline park and not smile. It was me that day. It was it’s like it’s kind of you know, it’s it’s the same thing. It’s like you know, I’ve never seen I’ve never seen someone’s I’ve never seen one cry on a jetski II write all you do is laugh good. He’s like, I’ve never seen anybody cry on the trampoline park. Yeah, I was borderline about. Dude. Like literally I it was most money I’ve ever lost my entire life is more money and I ever made in a day for sure. Because I just compounded a lot of small wins. Yeah, I never had like big parabolic winners until I traded Tesla on the big first red day. That’s my first ever really like, solid, solid, solid win. And I would just normally you it would it was 305 or 701k. And it was just a compound of that stuff. Because do that stuff adds up? Yeah, we do that it adds up faster than any 20,000 This day, minus two minus five minus one minus three minus three minus 40 k minus five minus five. Like, I will take I will take $500 a day, every single day for the rest of my fucking life to not do that emotional like minus, plus 40. I do I will preach it every day. Yeah, I will. I will take it every single day. But it was a 50% loss of my accounts. And it was I almost quit. I took two weeks off. In the end, the promise I made to myself was if you take two weeks off, and you don’t feel in your heart, like you need to come back. You’re done. You’re done. So I took a full two weeks off. I didn’t open a single, like message. I didn’t open anything. Like trading wise, like I just went back to like my own bubble. And I did not tell my wife how much I lost. So this day, or does she not know this day? And I made it back but Jesus Christ. So anyway, two weeks after that. Fast forward, I’m sitting there, and I’m like, Okay, it’s Monday. And every single day, even the days that I tried to not get up, I was up at 6am ready to go. And um, I had to force myself to not like I just had to go do something like I was awake ready to go and so I had to go take a shower, get ready and then and what I would do is I would just drive to Starbucks. And I would I’d get a coffee Alex and I would be like right I get a coffee and then I would just drive around until I had to go to work and I would just think about shit I would just think about you know, I lost X amount of money before you know and it was just it was a moment where I literally like that was the first time I ever I ever thought about like like legitimately ever had thought that I was like man maybe I’m better off not even hear maybe I’m better off like not even around I think I think my family might make more money if I was dead I got a pretty good life insurance policy. And so I was like, man I and but it just every day every day that I woke up at and during that two weeks I was up and ready to go at market open it well before market open. I wasn’t like five minutes for market open show. But like I wasn’t doing, baby yeah, I wasn’t hitting the horn like centre stage. We’re gonna buy a CBDX 190 at ASCO. 191 9191 95 197 195. Yeah, it was like, I wasn’t something like an auctioneer. I was. Dude, it was I was ready to go every single morning and I had to force myself to take the time off. And that was what it was. I had to get two weeks under my belt to get that disconnect. And ultimately, when when everything came back down to it, I was like, I have to continue this. I have to continue this I will not be beaten by the market. I will not be beaten.

James 1:24:05
So what’s funny is like people people don’t talk about those like, yeah, the down the down days. Like I don’t even know how to describe the feeling because I’ve had the days

Joe 1:24:16
RKDA wasn’t even my lowest low. Like dude, I’m telling you like our RKDA emotionally I know we just talked about that a minute ago, that wasn’t even my lowest low. That was not my lowest though Intel set the ticker. I That was what I lost 50% of my account on and I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget it for the rest of my life. All the lessons I learned in that and the number one lesson and so you asked earlier what was the other lesson that I could go back and tell somebody so it did kind of full circle into that was fundamentals mean nothing until the technicals confirm it. Fundamentals don’t mean jack shit until the technicals tell you it’s time exactly. That’s the technical isn’t that trade never said short it. But I kept shorting because that fucking company, all they did, I was again too smart for my own good, okay. I’m not saying I was like intelligent, I was educated enough I knew too much to, to like I knew how to dig too deep to get super biassed. And I dug and dug and dug and all this fucking company did all they did their satellite company, all they did is they would run up a fuck tonne of debt, open a new subsidiary, sell the debt to that subsidiary, and then start to re accumulate more and more and more and more and more open a new one, dump it into them, sell it to them, and they would just creatively move the money. They were billions of dollars in debt in the red. Couldn’t they were still upside down. Guess what they went bankrupt and listed on the OTC is now. But I could not last it. I could not Outlast it. Yeah, I lasted.

Harry 1:26:08
That is a big like, supply and demand factor.

Joe 1:26:11
I was fucking, right.

Shorts Need a Reason to Sell Until They Get Scared

Harry 1:26:13
Yeah. Where are you? Are you but where are you can be right. But like, it’s like, it’s one of those like Big Short moments where it’s like, has the crowd done the same type of due diligence that you have done? Right? Are all these people who are pressing the buy button as educated as you are short? And the answer is? No, probably not. They probably aren’t. But people are still buying. People are still buying the hot check. People are still going up. Because until there’s a reason for them to sell. They won’t. And that is a big, big lesson in my in my trading career where I have noticed that’s why the death candle works so well. That is why the mid process works so well. Because until Long’s need a reason to sell until they get scared. There’s no reason yeah. And it’s just like shorts on the other side for me long. Until shorts need a reason to cover until it breaks high day until it’s made a higher low until we have shorts upset. There’s no reason for that stock to go over highs, and there’s no reason for FOMO long. So we’re gonna chase that. And that was a big, big, big lesson that has helped me a million times over and I know it’s helped you as well. I know it’s helped James too. And that’s a big, big lesson that’s helped me.

Joe 1:27:34
The second lesson from that trade was I was down probably I was immediately down in this trade. Like, as soon as I started to trade, like I started shorting, like two weeks before it ever had the big day. Yeah, I was in anticipation of their earnings. Okay. And so, you know, everybody knows the thing of, you know, don’t trade in upcoming events. So that’s not the lesson here. Everybody knows that. I’m not going to say that reiterate same shit that everybody fucking says. The other lesson is I was immediately wrong into trade. And it goes against me, it goes against me, it goes against me and I continue to average in. I’m scaling in, I didn’t start big. I knew that this could take time. And it immediately goes against me. I’m about halfway sized into it at this point, and it has one really big tank day. And I remember being up literally I remember the number to the penny $186.47 I remember being up 186 And in the same day, I was read again. And so my best advice is This is always my rule. If a trade immediately goes against you, and then it gives you an opportunity to break even get the fuck out

James 1:29:06
Always

Joe 1:29:08
I don’t care where it’s at on the chart, do not reassess the trade and pretend it’s a new trade. Because you have all this like rebound dust all over you. You know you’re trying to you’re trying to bump uglies with the girl in the club, but you still got this other business lipstick all on your neck and you’re like, No. And she’s like, What’s that on your neck? You’re like, don’t worry. I’m just short a lot of shares of Intel set, right? Like it doesn’t fucking work. So the best advice I have is, and it goes in both ways. Okay, it goes in both ways. If the trade goes vastly against you, and you have an opportunity to break even or lose a little bit of money at that point, let’s say you had the worst fucking discipline in the world, you’re the worst. If it gives you that opportunity to take it, it’s a blessing. Seeing from above, the good Lord above is looking down on you’re saying you got an opportunity to get out, here’s your opportunity take it. Because the blessing there are few and far between folks, let me tell you. And the second side is when you’re up a lot, and you don’t take any money, and then it goes back to break even don’t think it’s going to come back up. Don’t think it’s going to go up or come back down or whatever it is, don’t think your p&l is going to rise again, if you go through and what you call the floor amount, okay, it’s a floor amount if you’re doing any algorithmic trading or anything like that, it’s called the floor. And basically, let’s say you go and you set a target, you say, Okay, once I’m up 500 bucks, if it gives back $250 At any point, I’m out. And so once you get up X amount of money, you have to set this point that I will not allow myself to give back this amount of money have these potential profits, unrealized profits, because unrealized meant it’s like, it’s like sitting at the blackjack table. And you just keep winning, you keep winning, you keep winning, none of those are realised gains until you stand up from that table and walk the fuck away to the cashier and cash out your chips and walk out that bitch, but it’s all fake money at that point. Why do you think they give you fucking poker chips and not real money? It’s just the same thing as stocks. If it’s not real, you’re literally not sitting there going. This is a $500 bill that I just bet. This is 10 grand. I didn’t know it’s a fucking poker chip. It’s the thing. That’s true, man.

James 1:31:30
I’ve given back. I remember days where I was up. Like 1000 bucks. I was. Oh, yeah, that was Yeah. And I just remember giving it back because it was unreal.

Joe 1:31:39
Go back to your average. And finally when it went red, you’d take it.

James 1:31:43
Yeah, but if you give me $1,000 In person, and you just take it away from me. Of course it would be like what the fuck

Joe 1:31:49
kneecap this motherfucker.

James 1:31:53
I love what you said about just like the chance I’d like while you were saying that I just had I think PTSD and it’s almost like blacked out there. of the times where I FOMO shorted the bottom of range. Gods wheezed, and then it came right back down. And I said, I’m about to be right. And I didn’t take it off. Yep. And then I ended up taking a fat loss when they said rumen hairy started binding up that way.

Joe 1:32:18
I remember it i Here’s the signal. Here’s the signal folks, if you’re short, and it blesses you, and you get blessed, and the market blesses you and says here’s an opportunity to break even and Harry Haas goes long from that is folks that Terry signal, Dale, yeah what does Masvidal say he’s like you got blessed.

Harry 1:32:48
Today on EVK, where I was like, okay, watching for zombie. And there were some people who are like, I don’t know and I was like, and then we had Alex come in and say Okay, that should have done lower I’m done for the day. So new people basically confirming and then we have Bao coming in saying All right, listen, I’m not even touching it anymore. And you know me guys, like I could say afternoon.

Joe 1:33:17
I’m gonna touch it.

James 1:33:20
Bao Bao gets up from trading and he’s like, I’m not shorting that shit. I know five tickers that he has been like it’s not a short number. This motherfucker

James 1:33:37
dude, he just buys into my sells.

Joe 1:33:39
Oh man, Alex says don’t short Bao says don’t short and Harry’s looking at it for a long

Harry 1:33:48
And that’s where the chat can can help a lot where like, you know, we’re not necessarily saying oh, we’re long at like 360 or 350 but we’re saying okay, we’re watching this area for long you know? You You were supposed to be making a plan before this. You’re supposed to be drawing your lines. Tosh says every morning now at 920 before the market opens at 930 If you don’t have your lines are on and you have no plan you should not be fucking trading like you should not be trading anymore

The Worst Part About Trading

James 1:34:17
yep the worst the worst part about trading is just going back and here like even just talking about it just makes you remember like if you had dropped the ego dropped the the need to be right mentality I mean would all be up how much more money would be forgiven much bigger apartment a lot of cool shit.

Joe 1:34:39
He wouldn’t be doing this webinar in his fucking No, that’s true. I would throw on him. I wouldn’t be in a fake office

James 1:34:54
I mean, so you’ve been trading for what six years now? Right in total. What are your what Your Future Plans what’s like the next Joe Kelly, you look at the future. You see what?

Joe 1:35:08
Algorithm algo really, I’ve been coding an algo for the last 60 or 90 days or so to three months. And it’s basically going to be a basket of strategies that are just going to trade big caps and options. And so I’m trying to go fully automated and not daytrade. Yeah, yeah.

James 1:35:37
It’s a misconception, right, because day trading is the coolest job in the world. Like, it is awesome. But it I’m saying this, honestly, it’s also the worst fucking job in the world, but it’s emotionally even even as a profitable trader even making money. I again, I I will never take about I love what the fuck I do. I’m sure you guys do too. But like, even Alex, we’ve had this conversation, like, there’s days where you just fucking love it. And then there’s days, you’re just like, Fuck this, like, what? Why do I do? So? You know, it’s, it’s a tough job. I mean, yeah, it’s a great job. But don’t get me wrong, but it’s so it’s,

The Mental Baggage of Success

Harry 1:36:17
But it does come with, you know, a lot of other shit that, you know, there’s a lot of stress and a lot of mental sacrifice and almost like mental baggage that you pull yourself through in order to become successful. You know, and especially with relationships, I’ve found the most with other people as well. And maybe because I’m younger, I have to like fucking deal with a lot of more people telling me what the fuck I should do with my life. Or even you know, everyone has their own opinion. Because, like, even when James James was a hair cutter, you’d want Joe like Joe, Joe had, like Joe was older when he got into trading. I think a lot older. You were older than me, weren’t you? When you’re 12, right. Yeah, like I started trading when I was in fucking like grade 11 You know, that’s when I fuckin started. And so everyone was telling me Bad idea. Bad idea. Bad idea. And you know, I think when a lot of people and like, there’s a lot of like, kind of doubt put on you doubt cast on you that like, oh, what you’re doing right now or you can’t make a career out of it. Or you you know, I think there’s a lot of mental fucking, you know, mental stress and show there’s

Joe 1:37:33
You just You just said it. There’s a lot of mental fucking. I mean

Harry 1:37:39
that’s the best fucking way.

Joe 1:37:41
The best fucking I agree. I agree. Yeah.

James 1:37:50
I learned I learned how emotionally

Joe 1:37:53
One time, one time, my buddy, we were driving, I forget where we’re driving. And I don’t know what it was. But we were just talking. You know, sometimes you’ll just like, it’s just like, instead of people saying, or, and it’s like that mental pause. Yeah. Like, for a little while. My thing was like, I’d say something I’d be like, but fucking and he was like, buttfucking what? From that moment on, I’ve always I’ve always listened to people’s sentences. And when they’ll say like, this, and then they’ll say fucking, it’s like, Dude, it just goes so well. Like, you’re like mental fucking and then like, yes, that works. But it was that day that he went Why did you say but fucking What about and I was like I was like, ruin that forever now. Yeah. Lee. I that was like, it was instead of me saying like, at the end of a sentence or something like that. And like a pause. I would I would say it and I’d be like, you know, man, but fucking and. And one time he just goes

James 1:39:09
like, did you lose? You just say

Joe 1:39:11
yeah, like never hung up

Harry 1:39:17
on your mind after fucking you know.

Joe 1:39:23
Dude this happened? Before ever knew about the market. Yeah. This is still when I was a skateboarder in high school.

James 1:39:34
Dude I would love to meet high school Joe Kelly. I mean, I feel like

Joe 1:39:39
I was a dickhead

James 1:39:40
I was a grumpy little asshole. I was like, Harry, you and I

Joe 1:39:47
It was fun to be me. I wasn’t ever a bully to people. But I was always really sarcastic. So it was like you couldn’t ever say anything serious to me that I didn’t try to like come back. with some smartass remark. And it was like I, I would never bully anybody, but somebody could probably call that emotional bullying in some way. I would never like talk shit. You know what I mean? I wouldn’t say like that. But I was always like, you can never have a serious conversation with Joe Fucking hell. Yeah, totally. And so that’s it do the emotional the mental side. And the emotional side of trading is I mean, like Harry was talking about earlier is, is the side that people don’t talk about. So this was one of the questions that we didn’t quite fulfil. Maybe everybody’s question about what I did work full time before going full time trading. And how did I do in how to eat? That’s everybody’s question to me every time is how did you make that transition? How did you get out of it? How did you because a lot of people, they have a job that like allowed them to trade. And then they just got out of it. Like, I didn’t have a job that allowed me to trade. I was literally 12 14 16 hours a day, like working constantly. And so it eventually just became that’s why swing trading worked so well. And I didn’t actually finally quit. until like, I felt like I had MIC that’s for sure. Like I had all the support the the all the all of all the friggin emotional support to go along with it to actually make that transition. And it was all of these people it was it was all these people around me that were like, Are you not a full time trader and it was Aleksey would be like, do you trade full time? No, no, I’m still you know, I still work.

James 1:41:41
I remember the day announcement. I remember that I do what I remember the day you announced you’re going full time trading and like you posted the picture of the check that you had made from trading your first check that you took.

The First Time I Ever Wired Out

Harry 1:41:53
Yep, yeah,

Joe 1:41:54
That was the first time I ever paid myself. And it was like, it wasn’t even that much money. But it was real. It was just, it was the first time I’d ever wired out. I just thought that you needed to just keep growing your accounts until they were just as big as you could get them until you know they made and so I never know I’m like just wire out just pay yourself a little bit. Never Knew I never would have done it never would have done it until the am I see. And it was actually Nico that that kind of ingrain that in my head Nikko,. Me as well. Yep. Yeah. He and he was talking to me about he would he’d be like just request to check request to check because then it feels like a paycheck to yourself. And it’s the most rewarding feeling in the world. Everyone loves to cash a check. I was like, boom, done. And so it was like it was the first time I ever wired out, ever wired out and I didn’t even wire I think I wired out like $400 but it was I wired out to go paycheck. Yeah, I wired out there go to the most expensive restaurant in San Antonio, for me and my wife. And that was what that paid for. And that was the first time I rewired out and everything else I’d always lived off my income from from Ford. And so the way to quit. That’s what everybody asks, How do I quit my day job? Well, let me tell you the biggest mistake I’ve ever made in my trading, quitting my day job. It was biggest mistake in my career ever. Winning that it freed up a lot of my time. But what I would recommend is, is find a career that allows you to Kraid and then continue to make money in a non market environment. That you know like James is a business owner James continues to run the barber shops. I know it Harry just shows up at everybody’s fucking barbecues drunk. And he’s that creepy uncle. creepy uncle. What do you do outside of trading? Harry, what do you do? I actually don’t know.

Harry 1:44:07
Its pretty much I mean, like I just trade full time and right. So basically

Joe 1:44:12
When the market closes, what do you do?

Harry 1:44:15
What do I do? What do you do? I usually like

Joe 1:44:19
itHegoes from interviewing Joe Kelly podcast. You do ?

Harry 1:44:23
mean? Yeah, like I mean, I do like, like so basically, I went to university for two years dropped out. Would you go for business? Commerce, big commerce business, okay. Okay. Yeah, like my drink. Well, I had always I had found writing before I went to university. So I was in university studying. And, you know, MIC also came along when I was in university. And I at that point, like I had my own kind of apartment. It was on the water.

Joe 1:44:55
I remember the pictures. Yeah. With some other things I remember For those

James 1:45:04
That Harry I remember you drunk calling me one night you’re like, dude, should I just quit, man? Should I just quit University man? Like, I love this.

Joe 1:45:15
I do remember him posting questions about that. And so So why did you go for business? What was the plan?

Harry 1:45:21
Well, it was just basically. I mean, everyone told me that yeah, I should go for business and because I could pay for it, you know, it was like, you know, you should go, you should go. So I went, and I was like, this fucking sucks other than the parties on the weekend, and the fact that I have my own place and people would come over and drink was even worse. Because man there’s stories of me fucking trading in the morning shorting some shit, fuckin putting a stop and going in yakking and just praying it was a fucking all day fader or else I was gonna get stopped out missed the reentry. So yeah. There’s tonnes of stories like that. I mean, and I honestly got to a point in my life where I was just partying drinking a lot and I know I’m super young, but like it I knew it was toxic for myself to come home and just have fucking 50 Corona bottles on my fuckin all my cable like James has back there. Where and just oh my god,

Joe 1:46:18
How many bottles have you drank during this entire thing? James is intoxicated at this point.

James 1:46:23
That’s literally two I have to go to the gym after this. I can’t drink anymore.

Joe 1:46:28
Its says 930 at night.

James 1:46:31
And it’s

Joe 1:46:33
10:30 for freaking Harry.

Harry 1:46:35
Yeah, it’s 1030 for me. Yeah. Anyway, so I did I did. You know, I did all that. And my parents were like, listen, like, do you want to live with us for like a year or two, whatever, till you just buy a house or whatever you want to do. And honestly, that was the probably the best decision I had made because I had people that I had to be accountable for. And I had people that kind of kept me in check. Whereas when I lived by myself, it was like, oh, fuck it, you know. And also it didn’t work out well that I lived right beside a liquor store. Like where I lived on the water there was also a liquor store a couple blocks. Oh, God. So I mean, I wouldn’t be on my way home and I’d see the liquor store and be like, oh, you know, and then next thing you know, like you just have a couple of drinks and there were some people who kind of lived at the bottom of my building who had come up and there were people who live just a couple blocks away it would come over and next thing you know, we got five six boys around drinkin arguing over some random shit. I’d be drunk in the NIC chat like yo and people do they fucking night, bro. What are you doing? I learned how to be consistent hungover, which I had a process which I called the hungover process where I’d wake up at 4am Creating a tonne of water, have a drink a shit tonne of Tylenol, then I’d wake up at 6am some more water drink some more Tylenol, I’d wake up in the morning and I’d be almost hangover free by then. I’d still have like a little water bottle. You know, I’d be reading what bow or Joe or James is saying chat. You know and like it. It was just like, I was almost like off the rails. But I mean now I think I’m at a point where like, I’m a way better trader now compared than a year ago.

Joe 1:48:24
I like you better as a short seller.

James 1:48:27
Yes, Sniper trader

Harry 1:48:31
You know, I’m way I’m not like, it’s not that I missed the old Harry. But it’s like I do like where I am now. You know, I’m definitely a better trader. I’ve definitely I have another year under my belt. And I also have people who, you know, and some people are like, Oh, you still live with your parents or whatever. But it’s like, no, I moved out and then they were like, No, you should probably come back because like, I mean, they did like a surprise visit or whatever, because my mom had to get eye surgery and no one told me and they just came up to my apartment and was like what like a bunch of boys over there knock on the door. And they were paying for it. So I mean like it’s not like they can be like

Joe 1:49:14
More lines on a coffee table than what you use.

Harry 1:49:17
Yeah, so I mean, and they were just like holy fuck like what? And they were like oh, we’re gonna take you out to dinner and shit you know like or do you want to go out to dinner or whatever and I was go ahead

Joe 1:49:28
an intervention

James 1:49:31
rest of your family was there. No, Harry we need to talk.

Harry 1:49:35
The rest of my family are like you’re like you go back to like, I’m just like, No, like you people obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. But every family event it’s like so what’s your five year plan? It’s like so you asked me this the last one and it has not been a year yet. Like it’s been three months. Okay, five years is a long time. done. There’s a lot of things that goes into those five years, nothing has changed. I can assure you nothing’s changed from the last two weeks when you asked me, my five year plan is, trust me. I mean, it’s, it’s honestly good. I also have some younger siblings who like, you know, if they will pause somewhere or something like that, because all my siblings were like, were from me and my younger sister. It’s like eight years apart. So it’s crazy, that we’re all spaced out super crazy. So like, I’m in second year university and my brother’s like in grade six, you know? That’s funny. Yeah. So yeah, so like, we’re all super, super spaced out. And I don’t know how that works.

Joe 1:50:43
So basically you’re saying is you were the only planned child? I know, everyone else was an accident

James 1:50:50
Was very unplanned.

Harry 1:50:53
But yeah, you know, just, it’s just kind of how it’s worked out. For me. I’m happy when COVID is over. You know, I mean, I don’t really have a plan, but I’m definitely going to do some travelling, I’m definitely going to, you know, have some time for myself for sure. But I mean, it’s Life has been good to me for the past, like, since like, you know, since I graduated, you know, I haven’t really been through any, like, terrible, terrible hardship or struggles, and maybe what I consider a struggle, most people don’t consider a struggle, because, like, we know what it’s like to get, like, as you’d say, but fuckin you know, we know. I know. But you know, so I just keep um, I mean, from like, from where I was last year, you know, like, I haven’t really been drinking that much. To be honest, I haven’t really been going out that much. But honestly, that was good for me. Every once in a while I just did you know, like everyone does, you know, I’ll drink get drunk or whatever. But now, like, I’m not really partying as much trying to just trying to live a normal healthy lifestyle. Now.

James 1:52:07
Back to this story of Joe Kelly at the was at the Austin meetup, which meet up in the other Dallas meetup. I mean, the first time where you were stumbling through the, the Philly meetup

Joe 1:52:19
Yeah, that was really nice. The last time I ever drank you and after drink after I haven’t drank since.

James 1:52:27
That’s about it, too.

Joe 1:52:30
He will literally ruin your life. It will change you.

James 1:52:35
It’ll make you the best trader. But you’re like,

Joe 1:52:38
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was doing good. I was doing good. The whole night. Okay. I had like, five cranberry vodkas. That’s really nothing for me. I’m a big guy. I can handle it. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it was tequila. Shot. What happened was the whole night I knew I gotta avoid bow. Hey, buddy, what’s up from across the room? And I told us and the same thing I said, you and me. We got to stick together. Okay. gotta stick together. And he abandoned me. Where do you go and I ran

James 1:53:35
went to go find a way of somewhere

Joe 1:53:38
He went to go fucking flop his hair on some chick. Hi, my name is Austin. I’m from Hawaii and ride surfboards. And she was just like, Oh, yes.

Joe 1:53:55
And I’m over here, like, on the other side, I’m like, Hey, are you okay? Fine. And so he just wanted to do his own thing. And I just socialise. You know, I was hanging out with Alex and Tosh for a minute and I was hanging out with oliver and then we spent a while rocking over here we’re doing and we’re talking to them. And we’re talking to an AI so I was like, I was like, consciously trying to manoeuvre my way around Bao. I was like, wherever bow is. I’m on the 180 degree. We’re in he goes here I go here and when he goes here, I go here and so I was just like, the whole time like, I’m over here and he’s there. And at the end of the night we just I’m walking out of the bathroom. And he’s walking in. No. We just ran into each other. Just do what’s not man and he was fucking plastered at this point. And, and, you know, Baos just so lovable. He’s the most fun person to be around. I’ve never been around a person that is more fun and more positive than him. And, and so he’s like, Dude, we’re gonna go get some job. I was like, oh, and so yeah, I had like five cranberry vodka, isn’t it? It was like mostly cranberry, little bit. So I was fine. And so we go to the bar. And then one of the MIC members comes up and sees us ordering and it goes about you got shots off book. So he buys me and bow shots and him shots and we’re like, Yeah, let’s take him together. As the first kind of tequila, okay, I thought I was off the hook. I took a shot with bow, no. Bao insisted. He by a shot for me. Round two.

Joe 1:56:07
And so second 1 do this is in a very short period of time to Okay. This is not like periods of where we walk away and come back and walk away and come back. No, it was back to back. And so we hit it. And he’s like, oh, man, that’s good. Alright, one more.

Joe 1:56:28
I was like, no, he’s like, it was like, fine. And it was it this was like this is he was just telling me you know, just one more add just one more add a little bit more on the short, just a little bit more. And then I just like that third one, bro, was just as soon as I threw it back, I was like, Oh, this is good and bad. And at that point, I decided that I had to go piss again. Yeah, and so did Bao. So I don’t know why. But me and Tosh and me and bow always end up in the bathroom at the same time. Apparently, we’re on the same schedule. Same bladder, same bladder schedule. And yeah, so we go to the bathroom, and then at that time, they flip the lights on in the bar, right in a club that we’re in. And it’s just like, and so we’re like, What the fuck, you know? And everybody that was hot, not so much anymore. And it’s one of those like,

James 1:57:40
zombie times and you’re like

Joe 1:57:45
I’m gonna go by myself the demand meeting. Yes, yes.

Joe 1:57:54
Oh my god. It was like discovering it was like discovering a hidden ATM near like, Jesus. I see what you did there. I see how you called it a sales agreement. Yeah. And no anyway, so we leave. Okay, we all get together. We leave. Austin rejoins me at this point. All of a sudden we’re Armond owner and again. He drives he drives that was the only time that was that was me and him. That was our that was our pact. That was our we don’t drink. So we will drink together. Moderately. He had like four. I had five. I was like, we’re good. We’re even. And then I ran in about he avoided in the entire night. And that was bad. So all sudden mean me and Austin relink. Right. ARM and ARM ready to go. Ready to leave. No bathroom upstairs. They wouldn’t let you back in the bathroom. So you had to leave. So we left. And everybody was like I was like alright, cool. I’m gonna go back to the hotel. And I’m gonna pass out because I gotta piss like a racehorse. No. Chad and his wife from Cobra. Me and Austin. A bunch of other members from mi see. We all decide no, let me rephrase that. They all decide that we’re going to go get pizza at 3am because there’s this pizza place around the block. Okay, they sit around the block. eight blocks later, we’re still fucking walking to the pizza place. I’ve had to piss for eight blocks. And I am shmammered, okay, gone. Gone. And I’m just like, since I’m like walking in the back of the group like talking to Chad and his wife and I’m like, Fine. Good time. Me too. All right. I’m like, Man, I can’t wait to get there. I gotta piss so bad. And so we like, they’re like it’s just down the block. Just one more block is bugging like eight blocks has been like seven blocks gone by a minute.

Harry 2:00:17
You can just whip it out in a little alleyway. There’s not enough people even see it.

Joe 2:00:22
So dude, there was an alley between the buildings. It was dark. And there’s a trash can. And I felt like I was on an episode of like, like the Punisher or like Daredevil, you know, like how everything happens in the alley and it’s all dark and it’s like the trash can and it was like, I felt like I’m in that city moment. And so like I just walked back there and I literally I’m just like right next to the trash I’m like right next to the dumpster and I’m like, that was my moment where I’m like you have hidden all new low and you are literally urinating next to a dumpster you need to stop what you’re doing and read everything and that was when I stopped completely I have not I haven’t I don’t casually do it anymore. I don’t do it. What I just don’t do it. And now it’s I was like, I was like, no, no, I’m telling you bro you you can’t keep up with bow he will retire you He will retire you you will be you will be Michael Bisping, thinking you can take on George St. Pierre, and he’s gonna retire you you’re gonna you’re gonna fucking hand over the belt and you will be retired. And I I tried in San Jose failed, didn’t work. I tried in Dallas failed, didn’t work. And then there was San Jose, Dallas, Philly. There was another one. The first New York meet up New York. There we go. That was it. So it was Dallas, San Jose, New York. Billy and no, never again.

James 2:02:07
No, you’re done.

Joe 2:02:09
I’m done. I’m done, bro. That was good. That was my that was that was it? I was like, I’m out. I’m out. I can’t keep up with this.

James 2:02:20
I mean, you’re talking about us? I think he gets a new liver every six months he goes to Thailand or some shit comes back. He’s restocked

Joe 2:02:29
He just walked on with the fucking dialysis cart. Right next up and that shit out like any just ages ready to go. The next

James 2:02:38
The number one lesson that MIC taught. You avoid the Bao at bar.

Joe 2:02:42
Yeah, you don’t want to get fucking bow. Is that a zombie? Chick? Yeah, that was?

James 2:02:48
No he’s the hot chick.

Joe 2:02:50
He’s the hot chick at 1030. walk away. Walk away. Bow back, bro. Yes, no, he’s

James 2:02:58
He’s RKDA

Harry 2:02:59
da da BPTH SBI

Joe 2:03:03
Oh, he’ll he’ll limit up on you and you ain’t got no you got no warning whatsoever. Misses your hard stop just blows right through it. Drill market maker won’t even execute because the bids to spark part. Like nothing. Just You’re done. You’re done.

Joe 2:03:20
You’re one of many casualties in Bao line of retirements. I’m sure he’s probably killed everybody. At some point. Everyone has moc out here we all gotta get together like I want this to be over so we can all get together.

Joe 2:03:33
He always says he’s like, Yeah, my girlfriend you know this girlfriend or that girlfriend? He’s always got a new girlfriend. And I’m like, where do all these people go? And I’ve I know what happens to them now. They all die from alcohol poisoning. They’re buried somewhere. Because they all died from alcohol poisoning.

James 2:03:53
Because they can’t keep up. Gotta gotta Oh, shit. Well, oh, man that No, I think we Yeah, I think about killing his girlfriend’s part. We can kill this. Well, honestly, guys, that was fun as fuck. I always love talking to everybody. Thank you, Joe. Thank you for this.

Harry 2:04:15
Yeah, perfect. Thank you

James 2:04:16
For sharing your secrets.

Harry 2:04:18
I think that this was definitely a good interview because it really does like I mean, as much as we do see you through the webinars and as much as we do see you all the time through chat. I don’t know where James is one but as as much as you know, we see you through all that stuff. Like it is always good and refreshing to talk about the journey, the experience, you know, everything that just really makes you who you are. And, you know, I think that that is, you know, definitely an important part. And I think it’s good to have that out there as well.

Joe 2:04:53
I appreciate it, gentleman.

James 2:04:55
Yeah, thank you guys. Guys. As always

Joe 2:04:59
enjoy your A workout sir

 

 

About the Author
113 posts
James F.

James Freedlender is a driven day trader and entrepreneur hailing from Boston. Since embarking on his trading journey in 2018, James has honed his skills and specialized in trading penny stocks, with a focus on longer time frame moves. His dedication and sharp instincts have contributed to his success in the competitive financial world. In addition to his day trading accomplishments, James is a thriving business owner, running a popular barbershop and collaborating with his family in the design and renovation of homes and businesses. His entrepreneurial spirit and keen eye for detail have paved the way for continued success in his various ventures. Outside of his professional pursuits, James is an avid golfer and hiking enthusiast, always eager to explore new trails and perfect his swing. His love for travel has taken him to many corners of the world, enriching his life experiences and providing inspiration for his work. A firm believer in giving back, James is passionate about helping others achieve their financial goals and guiding them on the path to success. His wealth of knowledge, combined with his dedication to uplifting others, makes James Freedlender a respected and admired figure in both his professional and personal life.