Welcome to the After Hours Podcast Hosted by Harry Hoss and James Freedlender Presented by My Investing Club
What’s going on guys, welcome back to another episode of the after hours Podcast. Today we have a special guest Sam, who’s a member at MIC. And he’s I think he’s one of the youngest members other than his tab group. Yeah. So it’s, it’s cool to have him on and we’ve been seeing some cool consistency and growth from him. So thanks for coming on, Sam.
Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Pleasure.
So of course then, of course, Zander’s your tab right?
Yeah. Zander. Zander is the main one. Yeah.
So we had Zander on a previous episode. So if you haven’t checked that one out, but I so I guess we’ll get into it. So I guess, Sam, how did you kind of get into this? How did you start trading? And how did you kind of get into MIC eventually?
Yeah, so trading was actually it was really random. For me. I’ve always been like very entrepreneurial. So I’ve always been interested in investing in the stock market. Like as soon as I turned 18, I opened up a Roth IRA, like all that type of stuff. But I was at my job one day, and I paint houses, and I was just sitting there and I got on the job was like, Alright, I want to I want to do something with my time. So I literally went on Apple podcasts. I searched in the word stocks. That’s all I searched to find some podcasts. And, of course, Tim Sykes pulled up, right. That’s the name that comes out with everything. So yeah, I just watched one video, or one podcast on just day trading penny stocks. And within two weeks, I never looked back. And that was in. That was in late January of 2021. So it’s been? Yeah. Yeah, I was 18. So I was in. I was in Tim’s room for about four months, something like that. And I really respect him. I was very thankful for that time there. He’s really good at keeping you motivated, keeping you kind of in the things. But after a while, I just realised that I wasn’t really learning a process that I can come to the market and trade with every day. It’s a really classic story. You know, I just I just didn’t have a process that I felt like I could repeat every single day. And that’s when Zander and I wanted to be on the be the trader podcast.
And do you guys know each other in real life? Or did you guys?
We met each other on Twitter through some attempts, comments? Oh, shit. Yeah, we just realised we were both young. And we were both working like every single day all day. And so long that dude, I didn’t know that.
How Did They Get Into the Space?
Yeah. So we just he was the one who first reached out and then we just started talking. And then we formed this next gen traders group, which is like seven on us now. So that’s sick. I love it. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we, we just heard about MIC. And we decided to give it one month, just to try. Because we were we were doing OTCs on the long side before MIC and they were like our we’ll do a one month we don’t want to mess up what we’ve done. We’ll just give it one month, and we’ll see how it feels a watch Sunday. It was about a week. And we’re no longer watching the OTC market. Nothing but MIC videos listed market. Yeah.
Were you having success before that? Like, were you finding some like short term success with OTCs? Or was it just I know that mark, it’s tough. Like I never personally got into it. I just skipped that whole phase. Like I just I found small caps first. Yeah. And but I and I know, like guys like Jack and like, there’s some amazing OTC traders out there. But where are you finding success with that? And like, how is that going?
Yeah, not really, statistically, we weren’t. And to be fair, when we were really kind of getting our groove with it, the market shifted, and it wasn’t very good for the OTC market. So I don’t want to piss on it too much. But we weren’t really finding that much consistency. My first trade ever was a first Green Day swing, and I made like, you know, 150 bucks. And then my second trade, I lost like $300 and it scared the crap out of me. And then it was just like two wins, or two losses and one win, and then three losses and one win. So it was definitely not consistency.
Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. So so then you found MIC you guys were there. What did you like about it? Initially, when you got in, like what was like the biggest difference between that and like previous rooms you’ve kind of seen and like, what kind of got you because you’re still here. It’s been obviously now over a year, so you’re kind of switched ?
So it’s really simple. The thing that hooked us initially was the education with other videos that we’d seen other DVDs we’d watch. It was repeating the same thing very basic level. Half of the video was filled with going through Twitter. The other half the video was talking about students And suddenly came to MIC and we started going through the videos were like, Oh, we’re actually learning something we’re actually learning. What does this mean? What does that mean? And how to do this? And when you see this respond this way, right? So it’s like, we were actually coding real education. We could watch video after video, and we were learning new stuff.
It’s cool. So, so, yeah, so now like, because where you’re at now, like, you’re starting to find some pretty good consistency, like I see you posting your charts a lot. I feel like you and Xander have have really grown a lot and I see it. So what kind of made that fundamental shift for you like, because it’s I feel like that started. I don’t wanna say too recently, but it was in the past, like, couple months here. Yeah. What, what changed for you? What, what brought into this point of like, going from inconsistent, like not really having your niche and process to where you’re at right now?
Yeah, that’s a good question. Um, there’s so many factors, it’s hard to say this. And this. I just read a blog posts, and it was about exploration and exploitation. And it’s about how to find consistency in your trading. I posted the blog yesterday. But they talked about how like, for a while before a big breakthrough comes, you have to be exploring, you’ve got to try all these different variables and whatnot, before you can exploit it and actually find consistency. And so I’d say the first couple of months in MIC, that’s what was happening, like we weren’t really too consistent, because we’re really trying like everything, you know, all the faders you’re trying deadlines, first resistance. You want rejections, we want reclaims. And we weren’t really, you know, finding consistency with it through, you know, August and September. And then it was the first of October, I can remember this, like, without a doubt, it was the first of October and everything just started to click with us. As far as the MIC process, and it sounds so simple, but it was just like, after a while, when you’ve been setting enough and you’ve been watching enough videos, you just look at a chart and you start to go, oh, wait, I heard this somewhere or away. I know what this means. Or, okay, this, this, I’m supposed to respond this way. Right. And so that clicked for us about at at the beginning of October. And then all of a sudden, we just started to figure out what our edge was wish for. Were both a little bit different. But for me, it’s outer lines. First resistance for on really broken down charts, when it’s gotta get really extended to get up to viwa. I love shorty view up on those. Yeah, going into October, we just started to click, and we narrowed down what we were focusing on.
How to Get Over the Hump of Consistency
yeah, I Yeah. Because like, I’m obviously in weekend mentoring. So like, I see a ton of your charts all the time. And I also wanted to say, I know that you’ve been going through a lot of stuff with your dad passing recently. And there’s been a ton of challenges with that. So, you know, I just wanted to say that, you know, I’m sorry to hear that. And, you know, whatever you’re going through, like, I’m always here for your bro. But um, yeah, I’d say that, you know, you kind of brought something up recently that, you know, tweaked my interest as well. And that was more so the, you know, just like MIC and being advanced, you know, like, you never really think about how advanced MIC is until you’re in other rooms. And random people are asking, like, what’s view up? Or what support and resistance? Right? And, you know, I think just like moving on, you kind of talked about like consistency, and like, you know, what, kind of like, took you to get over that kind of like hump. And I guess my question more so for you would be for anyone who’s kind of newer? Or who’s kind of been in the same position as you? What are steps that you would take to kind of, you know, get someone over the hump for consistency, or, you know, kind of, you know, anyone who’s like maybe questioning my see or, you know, questioning, training in general, what are kind of tips that you would give them to kind of maybe keep going and just staying on that track? And just, you know, putting in the
Yeah, well, yeah. The first word that comes to mind for me is full immersion. You have to immerse yourself in trading and the process and what you’re doing, if you’re not completely dedicated to succeeding at trading, don’t even mess with it. Like, if you aren’t 100 in there, if you’re not ready to put in 18 hours a day, for two years, three years, never giving up until you find consistency. Like you’ve got to know what you’re getting into. And when you have accepted that. It’s just a nonstop, right, just keep going. But for me, like as far as if you’re just joining MIT or something, you have to immerse yourself in the process. And that doesn’t just mean watching the videos. That doesn’t just mean like, Oh, this is a first resistance. This is the process right? It’s like the process is everything and MIC it’s freaking go you’ll be an after hours and the evenings right talk with Community read main shot during the market hours, have a tab group where you’re talking with people about trading the whole time. Watch your videos in your free time. Like you’ve got to immerse yourself in every aspect of it. And it has to become your life. Like if you’re if you’re trying to become successful at trading, and then every evening you’re hanging out with friends, and the weekends, you know, you forget that you’re trying to learn how to day trade. It’s gonna be very hard for you to succeed, you’ve got to live up to it. But find yourself people who you can talk to. That is really important. When you feel alone, it’s really hard to stay motivated. So find people who you can talk to which the moderators and MIC are always available. There’s so many people who send a message out and after hours you’re gonna be like 10 people at least who respond to you or DM you, you know, so find people who you can talk with find people who keep you going because really difficult alone and then just commit to it from day one just commit to watching the top people.
The Importance of Having a Trading Group
Why don’t people don’t know this, this I put you off while you’re on this subject because when MIC first started it was like guys like like me, Harry, Tom, like Joe like all the mods now it’s funny like hearing you talk about this because when MSC started, there was no video library. It was like week to week, we were like getting videos as they came out. And like we would spend, like, I swear it was like 70% of our day in after hours. Like I remember like morning tonight laughing my ass off because you were just surrounded by people who understood what you were going through. And like what you were doing and it was kind of like the first time in our lives I think a lot of us at least me I know Harry had like some friends in trading before. But like for me is like the first time I met people that were on the same path as me. And I feel like that’s kind of like been a massive help for you is like you early on met people on the same trajectory as you like with Zander and like these next gen guys and stuff like that. So how do you guys like in your tab group? Like how do you benefit each other? What do you guys do for each other? What is pushed you guys what has helped you guys push each other to where you’re at right now?
Yeah, I mean, it’s relationship. It’s just everything like we are joking with each other during the afternoons in the evenings. We’re calling each other out on our ship. We are you know, every morning pre market, we are watching the market together. We’re going over plans. We’re building watch list. If one person says I’m looking at this ticker, and we all pull it up, and we’re like, okay, that’s not nice. It’s a big market cap or something. We’ll call each other out. But it’s like we go over charts together. Every Friday. We just started this Every Friday we have a call that we do. And our group is like it’s Celina AP trades. The twins so like there’s a lot of us in this case isn’t sick. Yeah, there’s like trader jokes. But um, yeah, it’s just it’s relationship like we’re there for each other. When one of us has a bad day and we take a loss. We send our charts and we encourage each other we talked about what we did wrong. When one of us has a really good day we congratulate each other we are you know, we talked about it we go what do we do, right? How can we replicate this? And then be like me and Xander where you know, even in our free time, your free time needs to be discipline. So when I have free time, I’m in our discord group and fooling around with with my friends and we’re talking trading or talking life. No joke Zander. And I just bought Oculus is and we’re going to start to watch.
Your going to do this shit together.
And watch tape and price action in your Oculus. So actually, tonight, we’re just going to get on call together. Put on the Oculus is and watch price action.
Id be drinking just like staring at like random tape from like past tapes. I love that dude, I love that.
Yeah, it’s just relationship. It’s like holding each other accountable. It’s having fun together. It’s talking, you know, the good, the bad.
That like I feel I feel like you guys are gonna be the, like, the poster guys for like, the MIC process from like, start to finish because you’re doing everything right like and you just kind of keep on that path and keep doing what you’re doing. I really love it.
Vacation and Taking Time Off
Oh, I don’t mean to cut you off. Did you ever think about taking like a vacation or like a step away from trading for a little bit?
Um, okay, so coming up this next week. We’ve got family coming in town. And so you know, for my dad’s memorial, so I’m forced to take a week vacation and it is killing me inside. There is nothing that I want to do more than just show up to the market every day. Now there is a there is a balance that so I did not even consider taking a vacation. I’m not going to take a vacation for a year plus, if I don’t have to. I’m not going to do random random crap. But there is a balance Stop not burning out, because that is a reality. Yeah. And you’ve got to have balance in your life, but the balance needs to be controlled by discipline. So if it’s like, Okay, I’ve got an hour break, I’m not going to go watch YouTube, or go get drunk or go hang out with friends, if I’ve got an hour break, but I need to refresh my mind, I will, you know, I’ll go work out, I’ll go running, I will talk to family, I’ll you know, meditate, whatever it is. So it’s like, you need to have breaks, so you don’t burn out. But as far as vacation time, or taking time away, I just can’t do it, I want to succeed way too bad. And it’s like, I’m holding my breath, until I get to that point of consistency, which I’m just starting to get into. So vacations and time off is not something that I’m really, it’s in the realm for me.
Yeah, cuz I just wanted to maybe just touch on that. You know, I’m 21. Now I got into this when I was younger, like you as well. And like, you do kind of remind me of like myself a lot. And but just know that, like, the burnout is real, you know, like, it is real, and it will come. And like, you know, you, you think that it won’t, and you’re like, Oh, I’m unstoppable, right? You’re young. But the burnout is really real. And it can, you know, it can, you don’t understand until it kind of creeps up on you. So I would really recommend that you do kind of just try a little bit like, I know that you have the week coming up. And but also, that’s some some heavy stuff too, because like, It’s your dad’s memorial, like, it’s not really the time, you know, you’re still going to be working emotionally, you know, like, you’re still going to be upset. And so, you know, I would just say, just know that the burnout is real. And when you do feel it, don’t keep pushing, you know, you immediately take a break and say, guys, like I’m feeling burnout, because what I did is I just kept going through it, and through it, and through it, and through it. And then you get out on the other side of consistency, but you have a lot of other, you know, either like personal problems or whatever, that you’ve neglected for so long, you know, that by the time you get out on the other side. It’s like, Where’d everyone go? You know, and, you know, you’re you won’t come out the same person on the other side, as you started on this journey, it’s impossible. But you know, I would really recommend that you do you know, because James goes to, you know, he went to New Hampshire last weekend, James is moving around, too, you know, if you can take time off in between, and don’t look at it as it’s holding you back. Because my bit my biggest pivots came from time off, where I had a lot of time to think and reflect on my own trading and mistakes I’ve made and things have done, that’s really helped me as well. So, you know, understand that, you know, the burnout is real, it will come you don’t think it will, but it does. And it’s really what you do with it, that can really turn you from a six figure trader to a seven, you know, seven figure trader, you know that the it’s a big, big, big, you know, I think it’s a really big deal that, you know, a lot of guys, you know, just keep working and working and working and working. But you know, when you have time to let your mind breathe, and really soak in all that knowledge, you can really, really, really do really good things with it. So I just wanted to kind of point that out as well, because I’ve been there, you know, I got into this when I was like 17 You know, I’m 21 now and it will come and you don’t expect it and then you’re just you can’t do work at all, your brain can’t soak up any knowledge at all, you’re like a dry sponge, you know, so I just thought that I’d kind of point that out as well because, you know, I’ve been there and like, I probably get burned out once every three months now. You know, just because I burned myself out so hard where I just need to take a break and you know, sleep and a little bit and really like I’m from Canada so I mean, up until now you couldn’t really take any vacations and even now you’re not even supposed to be travelling within the fucking provinces. So it’s like where the fuck am I supposed to go? You know am I supposed to get on a plane and quarantine for two weeks without trading on the way back and pay for a fucking hotel like you know.
The Importance of Putting in the Work
So it’s important I I think I have such an opposite view of most like I always see on Twitter the people that are like oh I’m putting in like 200 hours a week I’m doing everything I can and I always think that is really important like I think obviously studying at this is is so key but also like remembering like why you do it is so important like that’s why I try to get away on the weekends like I try to like and I try not to open up slack and do any of that shit like the best I can or like I spend like I every morning before work and go eat with my mom and my sister and like I see my my dad when I can like it’s just, you know doing those things to remind yourself like why your work so hard actually, like propels you forward faster, I think. And it just, it just makes it easier. And I think that the fact that you have this, this group with you, you’re going to be able to push each other pretty far. So I really like what you guys are doing. And I think I’m just very impressed. I don’t see many young guys kind of putting in the head, no work into this that that you guys are I have friends that are in their late 20s, early 30s, that some of them want to do it. And I don’t see them putting in half the work or even 25%. So I really I really commend you guys. I think it’s cool.
No, I appreciate that. And it’s really true, what you’re saying, Harry, I think that the key for me with that is like acknowledging what season I’m in. So like, when I first started trading or first started, like, educating myself, I think that for anybody who’s getting into it, there is a season where you need to, like you’re cutting everything out, you need to like bottom down, do nothing but like trading. But then what you’re saying, which is very true is like acknowledging, when is the season shifting to where it’s time for you to take a deep breath, or it’s time for you to allow your thoughts to kind of sink in. And I actually I did push myself too far as like, a couple months ago, and I felt that burnout. And and that’s, you know, when stuff for the family was happening. So I kind of had like a forced time off. Yeah. And I came back to it like, you know, the beginning of October feeling really refreshed. So I do yeah, that’s it’s really true what you’re saying. And it’s so difficult for me though, because it’s like, if I take time off, I feel like I’m slacking and I feel like I’m missing opportunity. I’ve got like FOMO man,
No, no, there’s tough. It’s tough like it Perry I aren’t even here. We’re texting each other like talking about like Slack talking about what’s going on something being sad.
Like fucking shit about someone.
Its just always it’s always such. It’s literally tough. But it’s it’s just it’s hard to it’s hard to avoid this stuff. But I guess where you’re at in your career now. Like, what’s something you’re like struggling with? Is there anything that’s giving you trouble from getting to the next step? Like kind of touch on that if you can?
Yeah, I mean, definitely, it’s psychology. My own mind. You guys talked about this with David. The last podcast was imposter syndrome. And that’s something that’s actually been a topic in our tag group for since then. And we’ve been dwelling on it a lot. That’s the most difficult thing for me. Oh, go, you know, going into October and everything, I found like a level of consistency. And I feel like I can look at a chart and I know what to do. But what I’m trying to do now is size up into that nothing crazy. I’m not like tripling my size and stuff. I’m sizing up small. But when I go to size up, I like get like panicky and I feel like no like I can’t size up yet. Like I haven’t learned the process enough or I don’t have enough consistency or I’m going to take big losses. So I guess that would be the biggest thing that stopping me from moving forward would be psychology of like trying to get past the fear of losses get past the fear of feeling like I don’t know enough. And that imposter syndrome is definitely something that I’m trying to overcome right now.
Yeah, I think you’re in a situation where, you know, you have a bit of the knowledge now and but like the the account is kind of lagging a bit behind. And what I kind of did, when I was like in that stage is like, I completely stopped focusing on the p&l day today, I completely stopped focusing on those kind of fluctuations. And I really tried to make good habits and my trading every single day. And by doing that, that has kind of like snowball and snowball and snowballed because the p&l.
Its always been a lagging indicator, right? You get the knowledge, you get the experience, you get the whatever p&l Slowly lags behind that and it’s a slow process. And you’re like, Man, I know how to do this, I know how to do that, like what is stopping me. But it’s just the p&l is such a slow, lagging process. And what people do is that, you know, they think a p&l should be x or p&l should be this. And they get in a situation where they start overtraining. And they start really trying to make that p&l Catch up and catch up and catch up and catch up. And so what you can do is just focus on the process. And don’t focus on who you want to be or who you want to become more someone else or me or James or anyone else like that. Just really, really focus on your own growth and your own journey. And I know it sounds kind of dumb and kind of stupid, but that is something that really really helped me a lot like um, and I talked about this with David to like, I have half a Twitter muted I have half these fuckers muted because I don’t fucking care about them, bro. They’re not like Alex or Bao or James or people in my own circle. They’re external. And so I try and keep barriers around that external life to keep these people out. Like it’s like a you know, fucking guy with a spear and I’m in my circle. You know? If you try and come in, then you can I mean too fast or too quickly or too far, I’m gonna fucking stab, yeah, get the fuck out. And I also wanted to touch on one thing where, you know, that was fucked. I also wanted to touch on one thing where, you know, we kind of talked about earlier where we talked about, you know, overworking, you know, I asked myself all the time, you know, if I didn’t put in this much work would and like, I took breaks and went out and partied every weekend, would I be here? And like, that’s a hard question to struggle with, to what I have made it on my own, or was it that extra work in that burnout that took me to this point, you know, so, I mean, you’re always juggling that in your mind, you know, every single second, you know, just wondering, like, when people ask me like, oh, what got you here? What got you there? Like, do I say it was the burnout and the whatever? Or, you know, like, so I don’t know, you know, it’s a hard question to struggle with. And I think everyone is different.
What they, you know, yeah. Yeah,T
aking Harry’s Advice on Twitter
I think, I think with the imposter stuff. Well, first of all, last week, I took Harry’s advice, and I, I just unfollowed on Twitter, like, it wasn’t even more so people, some people, but it was more so like, I unfollowed. Like any people, anyone who was arrogant, like, just like, talked about trading, like they were like a godsend. And I got rid of those people. I got rid of the negative kind of like news feeds to like, anything that I could look at and like bother me and like, give me kind of like a weird mental, psychological state in the morning, and even at night, and I got rid of it. And honest to god, I sleep better at night. I feel better, like I just like am generally I feel more positive. So that was a really good piece of advice. And I really liked that. And then, as far as the imposter syndrome thing, I think everyone has that at some point. They’re like, Is this real life and a good like, this might be kind of off the path. So stay with me. But I was talking to one of my clients who’s a heart surgeon. And I asked him just kind of question about the imposter syndrome, because we were talking about trading, actually. And I was saying how that’s what it felt like this was a while ago. And he was saying, like, he’s like, you know, I went through all this work at school, I studied my ass off, like I put in the hours, I did this so that by the time I got there, he’s like, I didn’t feel like an imposter. I just felt like I was getting kind of what I deserved. And like I what I was what I earned, because I put in so many hours and so much time. That like, he’s like, I just didn’t have that. And that kind of took that into my trading, like, I have put in the work. And like, I know, people will put in the work and like so and obviously, it doesn’t come right away sometimes. But when it does, it’s kind of like, fuck yeah, like, I’m here, I need to accept it. And then that’s like, a whole new mentality of like, Alright, now I know what I’m doing and how to execute it. And then it’s just doing what you’re doing now. Just slowly sizing up slowly growing. And in? Yeah, I mean, I think I think the, you’ll know, if it’s imposter syndrome, if you have those like dumb luck, and I think people go on streets of good luck, where they went a couple of times, then they blow up, you know, but if you’re someone who’s like, actually, in that, that winning mentality and like your, your washers are controlled, your emotions are controlled, then it’s like that impostor syndrome, I think, will slowly start to fade away naturally. And, yeah, and like, like I said, You guys are killing it now. So it’s like, just eventually, you’ll wake up one day, like, it’d be like, not that long ago, I was just like, This is my life. This is my job, I come I have a fucking ATM machine in my house. And like, I just wake up, I roll over to my computer. And like, this is what I do. It’s not like a scared thing anymore. It’s not like am I gonna be successful with this, just like, This is it. So that will hit you at some point too, and, and sooner rather than you think? I think too, so I love what you’re doing. And obviously, we’re, we’ve hit our kind of time limit here. But the last piece for you, if you have any last minute advice for any new traders coming in.
Don’t Give Up on Trading
I mean, don’t give up. Right, like, don’t give up, it’s gonna be a really long journey, you’re gonna have days where you want nothing, but to just throw your computer at the wall where septons it’s just not clicking, or somebody’s doing better than you. And you just got to a bail always says, Don’t compare your level one to somebody’s a level 100. So just stay in your lane. Don’t give up, keep fighting for it. And keep it simple, that that really screwed me over because I’m a major overthinker. And specifically with the MIC process, it’s so simple. Like there’s so much to it, but it’s it’s so simple to learn. It’s so simple to follow. You just have to get the process and side of yourself. And then it becomes like second nature, which is what I’m starting to feel, you know. So keep it simple. Don’t overthink things. Don’t try to rush it. Stay in your lane and just keep moving forward. Every single day. Just do one thing to move forward and surround yourself with people that promote that, that encourage you with that that don’t make you feel like you shouldn’t be doing something you’re not that don’t make you feel like you should be going all in, right like surround yourself with people that encourage you and the proper way to succeed in trading. and not in the where Lambo mindset right.
I completely agree. I’m I think for you now it’s just a matter of slowly compounding those habits and slowly compounding the p&l and just everything for you it’s just a game of time compounding and keeping your losses under control and you know, you were you know, if you can do that then you’re gonna be super successful, right? Yeah,
For sure. So we kind of there that was good. Awesome